Wahoo P4 Stratagem System Review 323
Ian Bell writes "Buddhacon reviews the P4 stratagem system from Wahoo Computers. Could this be the most powerful home system on the market? With just about every option available including an overclocked Intel 2.9GHz CPU, Radeon 9700PRO, 1GB of memory and all the cooling features you can think of you would think a system like this would blow the competition away. Just goes to show that sometimes a fine tuned V6 can beat an over the top V8."
go AMD (Score:5, Funny)
sorry, I'll stick with an AMD
Re:go AMD (Score:2)
If you really wanted to heat your house in the winter you should find an old multi-CPU socket 7 board and go with a bunch of old Cyric PR266 CPUs. Now those were good processors...for overheating anyways.
Re:go AMD (Score:2)
Unfortunatly, they have no SMP support.
Re:go AMD (Score:2, Informative)
Heat to cost radio (Score:5, Funny)
Use an old P90 (Score:2)
Hmmm, maybe they just forgot to upgrade the accountant PC's over at Enron and WorldCom...
Re:Use an old P90 (Score:2)
A Pentium 60 would be even warmer...
Thoroughbred vs. Palomino for auxilliary heating (Score:2)
Bottom line, a Tbred is only useful for heating a small room. For a whole house, specify 'Palomino core'.
Send us your Linux Sysadmin [librenix.com] articles!
wtf (Score:5, Funny)
Does anyone else think this sounds like Latin crossed with web-dotcom-buzzwords?
Re:wtf (Score:2)
I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for? (Score:4, Insightful)
People, stop trying to build the fastest box imaginable, and thing serious. Use what you need for the job. Save money. Reuse old machines. Don't spend six grand on something you'll never need (well, you will, but probably when it costs more like a thousand bucks). If you can justify having this much power, okay, but otherwise, stop wasting time and money, and killing perfectly usable old boxen.
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:2)
I can get an average of 40fps at 1024x768 in ut2k3 with everything turned on, and that makes me happy, and I'm running a fairly old system.
MSI k7tTurbo2 (kt133a Chipset)
512MB SDRAM (pc133)
Geforce3 ti200
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:2)
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:2)
I can SEE 20 frames per second.. individually, that's below the point my eye needs to create the illusion of motion. (incidentally, I frequently notice shuddering on film)
I stop noticing fps improvements at ~70fps
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:2)
Hell, even if you disregard every single cool application that either runs better or needs a fast machine to run, it's worth getting a fast machine simply for how responsive it is.
-Berj
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:2)
All depends on what you're using, doesn't it?
XP is pretty awful on something like that, but Linux is more than happy on a system of that caliber.
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:2)
Most people browse the web and check their email. Its only fairly recently that even our office computers have got faster than 333mhz. We still run one on a P133 and up to a few months ago another P133 was hosting a database and some software (running NT) and it was fast enough.
not too bad (Score:2)
Re:not too bad (Score:2)
Since when is Slashdot... (Score:2)
Christ almighty, read that site banner:
Slashdot: News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters.
Joe average, the guy you are describing, has no idea where to find Slashdot. I certainly don't read this site so that I can see what passes for "good enough" in non-technical circles.
I want to know about:
Re:Since when is Slashdot... (Score:2)
Those other complaints are fine with me... This system isn't unique, it is ridiculously expensive, it doesn't use the latest components (for the CPU), and it's all been done before.
For those reasons, sure, maybe this doesn't rate being a feature on Slashdot.
But being too powerful for the average user? That's not the limtmus test I want to see used in determining what makes it on to Slashdot, just as I wouldn't want to read a magazine claiming to deal with high performance automobiles, only to find that it contained information solely about the latest offerring from Saturn, Kia, or Hyundai.
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:2)
I gotta disagree. Fans tend to get noisier over time, but as long as you're PIII/K6 era or before, you have far less heat generated than an Athlon or a P4. Which means you can run quieter fans.
I know someone with a 486 and no fans.
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:2)
anyways, while a 233 surely is not sufficient for a modern desktop, an athlon 1600 or so sure is, and they're about $60. not sure why people need the biggest baddest stuff, well ok maybe i am sure. ego boost
makes you wonder whether people that buy this stuff are just rich and dont give a crap, or they actually have save up for a while to afford it. if the latter, then man...poor fools....
Porn is just that much better at 2.9ghz! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:5, Funny)
Impressing others (Score:2)
I find spending a couple of hours with PhotoShop provides much clearer proof for the doubters.
Re:Impressing others (Score:2)
Less swapping means a lot more speed. Yes, and this holds true with Photoshop as well.
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:5, Insightful)
Consider this a "luxery PC" and the market for these items is generally small, but profitable.
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:2)
Yeah, but this isn't a Porsche - it's a tricked out '57 Chevy Coupe with fuzzy dice hanging from the rear-view mirror. If you really want to drive that kind of clown car, I got true symapthy for you.
I'd think of the Apple line as a Porsche.
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:2)
doom 3
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:2)
my 2 word rebute...
doom 3
when Doom3 finally goes Gold, this System will be outperformed by $999 boxes from Walmart...
My Money (Score:2)
I'm not trying to be harsh, but every time an article is posted about a faster chip, bigger hard drive, or overclocking, you mofos come out of the woodwork and tell us we are stupid. It just gets really old.
I personally have a K6-500 that I use as a file server. I have used it to surf the internet, but with new software (Mozilla, KDE, WinXP, etc...) it really bogs. I could probably use an older version of Windows or KDE and swap out Mozilla for lynx, but I don't want to. I want to use the latest, bug ridden software. And I want to have a fast computer.
Stop telling us that our hobbies sicken you. Stop telling us where our money is best spent. Let us have our fun.
Maybe they need it for....... (Score:2)
make xconfig
make dep
make bzImage
Try doing that on one of them pokey computers and then realizing you forgot to include the module for your sound card after you reboot the new kernel. Back to the drawing board. Of course, a $200 microtel pc from Walmart would probably do the trick, but if these kids wanna inflate the economy, I ain't stopping them.
Re:Maybe they need it for....... (Score:2)
ok you didnt even make modules or make modules_install, but then you talk about forgetting a module? and even if you do forget a module, you can go back, select it, and compile it (only it), and install it, very quickly. and xconfig is lame.
and people posting stupid comments shouldn't refer to others as "kids".
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:2)
I edit on a Dual P-III 866 and a 10 minute short with lots of work in it take less than 20 minutes to render (Dv video source Dv video out or mpeg2) The AVID's at work use Pentium-II 550's single processor and they are the top of the line PROFESSIONAL video editing stations not toys.
The only thing I can think of that explains why people are building ultra-fast machines is that they are preparing for either the next Windows release or the next Gnome or KDE release.
(Yes, I am bitter that Gnome and KDE are as slow as the Microsoft operating systems on their own. time to stop or remove "features" and start making it faster.)
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:2)
"I'll take trolls that got modded up for $100, Alex."
<sarcasm>
Oh, I don't know... I swear, these people buying these new-fangled computer things are out of their mindes. They've obviously never seen the kick ass integer benchmarks of my abacus.
</sarcasm>
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:2)
But really, its all about image quality. Sure your 2 year old computer will run Unreal Tournament just fine at a framerate thats fast enough that you can't tell the difference if it were higher
Re:I'm sorry, but WTF would you ever need this for (Score:2)
Serious gaming doesn't happen on a Playstation - they may have optimised architecture for video gaming, but this cripples them for everything else - and you need masses of storage, and a general purpose OS for serious multiplayer games.
iMacs are fine machines, but I would be unhappy about the lack of upgrade options.
Games aside, you make some very valid points though - I recently retired my Slackware 3.6 box that I've had on my network for 6 years (internet/mail/news gateway) - and then only as it had no PCI slots - and I needed one for my ISDN ta when I finally threw out the modem I was using for Internet access.. It gathered dust in the corner with no monitor or keyboard for those 6 years. My games machine on the other hand has had almost all parts upgraded at some point though - online gaming is incredibly competitive in certain circles, and players who can afford to avail themselves of the latest kit will always have an advantage. Besides - I'd hate to think I'd spent £40 on a game but my ancient video hardware makes it look like Quake in software mode
Maximum PC (Score:2)
Of course, that was dead tree form, and 2 months ago, so Slashdot is amazed by this computer because it's advertised online.
All these componants are available, and have been for a while. If you want to make one of these, go for it. Grab a ThermalTake case or a VapoChill, an Intel board and 1GB of PC1066 with a 2.8/2.whatever, and go to town. Overclock your 9700 pro.
It's not special. It's just special to slashdot.
Or, if you prefer:
Old and busted... New hotness.
we SAID 'Meh' (Score:2, Offtopic)
up to 3 GHz p4, even if it IS a desktop P4 and not a laptop one... that's what AC adaptors are for
Re:we SAID 'Meh' (Score:2)
Do you have ANY idea what that would do to your lap?
Re:we SAID 'Meh' (Score:2)
Yeah, burn my penis off. Been there, done that, got the bandages. It could be worse. A woman could cut off your penis while you're sleeping and toss it out the window of a moving car.
Re:we SAID 'Meh' (Score:2)
Overpriced systems are newsworthy? (Score:5, Insightful)
"Due to inadequate mounting procedures, the Radeon 9700's core was ripped from the card during shipping."
NOT WORTH IT (Score:5, Informative)
Equivalent watercooling System: $300
Enermax 550W Quiet Power Supply: $180
Case Fans: $20 (They're using panaflo L1A's for everything, an excellent choice for a watercooled system, but yes they really are this cheap)
Babybus: $40
Pentium4 3.0ghz
2x HDD Cooler: $25
Top of the line Granite Bay Motherboard: $200 (includes intel 10/100/1000 ethernet)
2x Sticks of 512mb Insane DDR of a brand of your choice : $400
Radeon 9700 pro : $270
Sound Blaster Live! Audigy Platnium : $200 (To anyone considering this -- DO NOT BUY IT -- go with terratek if you truly care about sound!)
2x WD1200JB Hard Drives: $280
Plextor CD-RW + HP DVD+RW Drives : $450
Zip Disk + Floppy: $35
Hardware Modem: $50
WinXP Pro: $170
Total: $3662
That is a FREEGING HUGE PRICE DIFFERENCE. Your paying about $3000 for the case plus them putting it together. I mean, I know that there are people willing to pay quite a premium for a well built system they don't have the time to research -- but jesus chrirst $3000 is nuts. This article is just more free advertising for some random company.
Re:NOT WORTH IT (Score:5, Insightful)
So yes, you're right, but there is obviously a market for this sort of stuff.
Re:NOT WORTH IT (Score:2)
Re:NOT WORTH IT (Score:2)
Re:NOT WORTH IT (Score:2)
My Voodoo 3 card (a bit lame in a dual AMD box but I couldn't afford to upgrade it after buying all of the other parts) didn't work in either of the new boxes. It worked fine in an older box however. So I replaced that. Moved a network card to a different slot, and swapped the processors around to level the voltage. After much googling I had found an article where a guy had a similar problem and he noticed that the voltage to each processor was not anywhere near the same, so he swapped them and it leveled out and his machine quite crashing. I checked my voltages and on one of the machines I had the same problem he described. Swapped the processors and problem was gone.
Since that initial 3 or so weeks that I spent getting them in working order, they have been very stable and I haven't had a single problem, plus I saved a great deal of money by building them myself. Of course, I ended up spending a great deal more time than I had expected and would have probably came out ahead by buying them from someone else at a premium and spending those hours working but it's only money right?
Re:NOT WORTH IT (Score:2, Funny)
That cost you to attempt to advertise in Slashdot.
Forum Links (Score:2)
Orgasms from around the world by dang
- International Music by dang
- From Russia, with lots of tongue by twitch
- Whoa, girls come here!? by twitch
- Kung Fu Stick fighting, episode 3! by Kernobi
- Man To Get 3 Years in Prison for Pretending to be Will Smith by Kernobi
- Eew! Urine skincare products by Kernobi
- What is a girls favorite sexual position? by Kernobi
- Girlfriends and video games do they mix? by Kernobi
- OMG look at these boobs by Kernobi
Still too damn slow... (Score:2)
Re:Still too damn slow... (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah, they should just build that instead of doing these incremental speed increases.
Multiple CPUs? (Score:3, Insightful)
Before people say that this is different because it's a desktop (unmodified), do I need to point out that the average user won't need this much power? The people that buy this will be rich techies, or businesses. Alot of techies prefer dual CPU stuff for the value, so this has no real market. Too new, too expensive.
Re:Multiple CPUs? (Score:2)
No for that price you can build a QUAD p-III XEON box.
I have All dual P-III machines here you cant buy a dual p-III motherboard that takes anything but pc133 ram so you're maxed at 2 gig of ram on the better boards. and if you use SCSI instead of the lame IDE for your raid/drive array's you still come out cheaper...
my SCSI machine.... 4 36gig U160 SCSI drives in a raid 5 array off of a slow 29160 U160 scsi controller, 2 gig pc133 ram, 2 P-III 1ghz processors, Geforce 4 dual head, and a "alienware" case (actually an antec but the same case that alienware uses) with dual 21 inch monitors cost LESS than $1400.00 over 1/2 the cost in drives that wont fail like the ide junk will.
no for that price they quoted I can make a beowulf cluster of dual P-III computers.
I'm confused (Score:4, Insightful)
-Berj
2.5ghz? (Score:2, Interesting)
Profit! (Score:2, Funny)
...jeez, I'm in the wrong line of work.
Who is the market for these sorts of computers? (Score:5, Interesting)
Retail Boxed PCs have the ignorant consumer who knows the brand name. Screwdriver shops have the slightly more informed consumer looking to save a buck or get more standardized parts (or the geek who doesn't feel like spending his day off building a PC). But these companies seem to charge an extreme premium for their products, given that most screwdriver shops would sell you the exact same parts and assemble them in the same manner (maybe not this watercooling business, but I know of a couple shops that would probably do that). The best I can figure is heavily spoiled 14 year-old boys who know that the Radeon 9700 is good because they saw it on PlanetQuake, but you can't build a computer company on the whims of 14 year-old boys (can you?!?). So seriously, I'd like some input here. Does anyone own, for example, an Alienware or similar system? Do you know someone who owns one? What was the motivation for the purchase? Since it's the only item I can really quantify that they might offer beyond the local shop, do these "premium" PC companies have tech support that's really that much better (or honestly, necessary) than the screwdriver shop that'll sell you the same PC, built with the same parts, for $500 less?
Re:Who is the market for these sorts of computers? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Who is the market for these sorts of computers? (Score:2)
I'm sure you could sell one to nearly everyone who owns a BMW, it's nearly the same thing.
Re:I know some Alienware owners (Score:2)
Coincidentally, most of the kids in this same crowd also have Honda Civics and the like with just about every sort of "racing mod" (their word) imaginable except the ones that would improve a car's performance or handling very much - $400 performance clutches w/ aluminum flywheels on a car that still has the original 1.2L engine and the like.
Re:I know some Alienware owners (Score:2)
Hah, my roommate is definitely one of those kids. He paid big bucks to get a top-of-the-line Alienware computer, but for the first six months of using it, somehow he managed to have his CPU underclocked - the bus was set to 100 mhz instead of the 133 his Athlon is meant to use, but the multiplier was unchanged, meaning his 1.4 ghz cpu was running at about 1 ghz. Ooops.
I am an Alienware owner. (Score:4, Interesting)
I originally looked at purchasing parts and assembling a system piecemeal. I discovered that living where I did (middle of nowhere town in NEw Brunswick, Canada) I'd have to have everything shipped - most of it from the states. After I totaled up the cost of shipping and customs duties for the parts, and then factored in the time required for me to assemble it, I realized it would be about the same cost as buying what I wanted, pre=assembled and warrentied, from Alienware (w/free shipping). Free shipping really helped - as well as the fact that when my nice big Alienware box crossed the border the customs official informed me that as an international student residing temporarily in Canada I wasn't required to pay duty (something I wouldn't have discovered if I had made a bunch of small purchases not requiring me to speak on the phone with customs).
As for what they offer as added value, the support people that I talked to when I had problems with my box were first-rate. The ONLY help desk people I've ever spoken with who didn't treat me like a moron and actually listened to me.
I'm confused... (Score:4, Informative)
I would hate to pay $6500 and be slighted 370 mhz of performance...
A custom case is not news. (Score:3, Insightful)
Someone throws standard retail components into a custom-designed case, sells it for way more than it's worth, and somehow we care?
Computers are not cars, there is no art to tweaking them at the hardware level. Put prefabricated components together in the right way, and you have a computer. There are many hardware sites dedicated to this; let this kind of article be posted there.
This whole case-modding culture is a joke if you think about it. It's the computer equivalent of bored rich kids paying someone to put the world's largest spoiler on a civic.
V6 and V8 comparisons (Score:2)
Just a little side-piece...
Re:V6 and V8 comparisons (Score:2)
I'm on my third car, never had more than 4 cylinders. I've had an I4, V4, and H4. The I4 is the easiest to work on, but the H4 is a much sweeter engine. I also have a motorcycle with an I4. I think 4 is the magic number when it comes to non-rotary engines.
Re:V6 and V8 comparisons (Score:2)
Re:V6 and V8 comparisons (Score:5, Interesting)
The small cylinder, high-reving V8 should indeed have higher bhp. This can translate directly into higher top speeds, and will allow better use of gears (more time in lower gears). It will also be smoother (more, smaller sparks), which is why luxury cars almost always come with V8s or even V12s.
The V6, while not reving as high, will have a stronger torque curve (each pulse provides more raw power) and, as was originally posted, can rev faster (but to a lower maximum rpm).
This helps to explain why Ferraris run V12s while Semis run V8s. The Ferrari is faster, but a nice diesel semi will be substantially more powerful.
Or, to bring it back to computer terms, bandwith != latency.
Re:V6 and V8 comparisons (Score:2)
The small cylinder, high-reving V8 should indeed have higher bhp. This can translate directly into higher top speeds, and will allow better use of gears (more time in lower gears). It will also be smoother (more, smaller sparks), which is why luxury cars almost always come with V8s or even V12s.
The V6, while not reving as high, will have a stronger torque curve (each pulse provides more raw power) and, as was originally posted, can rev faster (but to a lower maximum rpm).
This helps to explain why Ferraris run V12s while Semis run V8s. The Ferrari is faster, but a nice diesel semi will be substantially more powerful
...which gets us to the difference between theory and practice.
As designed, four-cylinders tend to rev higher, and V8s less so, because the reason to design an engine as a four cylinder is to reduce displacement and use less fuel. Since horsepower is directly related to engine RPM, the four cylinder from, say, that new hopped up Integra model makes a ridiculous number of horsepower up at some obscene RPM figure, but not so much down low. On the other hand, the V8 from a 'Vette may make a similar number of horsepower, but it does so at a much lower RPM figure. They're designed this way because the greater rotating mass of the V8 (more pistons and piston rods, more valves, etc...) would lead you to reliability problems if you were spinning all that metal at 9,000 RPM, and since you can make the power you need with fewer RPM, you do so.
The original statement is, of course, true, that a hopped-up V6 can beat a hopped up V8, because frankly, the number of cylinders is pretty much irrelevant, but there's no replacement for displacement. If you had a four cylinder engine with the same displacement as a V8, you'd wind up with fairly close to the same amount of power.
In reality, with commonly found engines found in vehicles here in America, the reason V6es can beat V8s is because the V6 get more souping up and get more horsepower per displacement-unit, which sounds exactly like what's described here; a 2.9 GHz P4 getting the souping up of some ridiculous cooling and overclocking to make it beat top of the line P4 with a cheapass fan slapped on it.
Ouch, not even close (Score:2)
The amount of _torque_ an engine puts out is (to grossly simplify) a function of its displacement.
The amount of _power_ produced is torque over time, so it is a function of displacement times engine RPM.
At no time does cylinder count enter into this. Two given engines, one a V12 and the other an I4, of the same displacement and turning the same RPM should, all else being equal, produce equal power levels.
Where the real world starts intruding is when you start increasing displacement. Ignoring forced induction for a second, you increase displacement by adding bore diameter, stroke length, or additional cylinders.
As you increase bore diameter and/or stroke length, you tend to increase the inertial loads on the con rods, and these loads increase as a function of a power of engine RPM. Given that there is a fixed strength amount for reasonable materials used in non-racing engines, increasing displacement by going to a bigger bore or a longer stroke means reducing maximum RPM potential.
For a big diesel where redline is often less than 3000 RPM, this isn't an issue, so you take advantage of the natural balance of the I6 and make the bores and strokes as big as you like.
But on passenger car engines, and especially in racing engines, adding displacment while retaining RPM capacity means adding cylinders.
Once you start doing that, the primary constraint becomes packaging - all else being equal, a 4 litre I8 will be twice as long as a 2 litre I4, but a 4 litre V8 is only slightly longer (but wider) than a 2 litre I4.
DG
Re:V6 and V8 comparisons (Score:2)
Part of going with more and smaller cylinders might have something to do with emissions, so you can rev higher and not have such a huge combustion radius.
When making their large engine in the 90's, I understand that Chrysler went with a 488 V-10 vs. a 440 V8 is the diameter of the piston which makes it hard for such a large and thoughrough combustion, thus making CO emmissions a problem. With higher revving engines, I think the piston size has to be smaller yet.
IDE RAID 0 (Score:2)
Striped array with no parity is exactly what I want to use on consumer grade IDE HDs. </sarcasm>
For that price, I'd expect RAID5.
Piece of Crap (Score:5, Interesting)
No, this is a long way from the best system I have ever seen. I'm going to be harsh and say why...
What's with the shitty toggle switch "baybus" fan controllers? The site reports that the fans don't even start on the lowest speed. That isn't good engineering, and they shouldn't really ship a product like that. I would expect all the fans to be intelligently controlled by a microprocessor independant of the motherboard. This would include fan failure detection, CPU throttling etc.
They've put a live drive behind a door... erm, isn't that a little stupid? Now you're going to have to leave the door open all the time, or hack a hole in it, or not use the live drive.. oh well/
Raid 0 with no proper backup? I don't think so. I've seen far too many people lose data on raid 0 now to ever use it. At this kind of price, it would be nice to see two very fast and small scsi drives raided for a boot drive. Then larger IDE drives for data. But still no raid 0.
There seems to be some confusion about SCSI and IDE. People suddenly thought that IDE drives were better, especially in RAIDs... and it's plain wrong. SCSI is more reliable (the drives are built far better), it is faster, the bus is quicker. When you are doing things like photo or video editing, then having a fast page file and scratch disk is very important. SCSI has lower access and seek times, and the difference notices a hell of a lot.
The paint job looks pretty shite as well.
I just don't believe they are charging that much for this system. It's not amazing or anything.
Something that beats it? Go to The Overclocking Store [theoverclo...tore.co.uk] and take a look at their Advance Micronics systems. Refigerator based cooling, complete systems, which are better configured and specced. You get an LCD and bluetooth mouse and keyboard for less than the system in the slashdot story. But...
Totally useless to buy high end. (Score:2)
A friend of mine bought a high end state-of-the art system for about 5000$ and now its worth nothing, only two years later. The only thing worth anything is the monitor, the rest is now history.
when software comes that requires this kind of CPU power in a single workstation (Windows 2010?) the computers will jump up in spead rather fast. until then the people paying 6000$ for something they dont really need or have use for are as fooled as those who buys Porches.
PS. Atleast a Porche draws chicks, computers dont. DS
Nothing To See Here (Score:2)
This box is nothing more than an overstuffed behmoth. If you want to see some really cool systems, look to the [H]ard|Forum [hardforums.com] and you'll be blown away at what a bunch of [H]ardcore [H]ardware geeks can do in their garages.
And if you really want someone else to build it for you, look around, there are much better deals out there.
Yea!! (Score:2, Funny)
Now, solitaire won't frame anymore and I can keep my beer cool right inside my cabinet so I don't have to make frequent trips to the fridge while playing!!
Obsolete already (Score:2, Insightful)
And too bad they didn't choose the 3.06 Ghz P4 with Hyperthreading -- yet another new feature this machine of yesterday does not support.
And what about Serial ATA (SATA) hard drives? A year from now, when pretty much every drive sold is SATA, the owner of this dinosaur will be sorry they didn't have the foresight to include support for this technology.
Several other posters seem enamored with the DVD+RW drive that is included, but a better choice would be the new Sony drive that supports DVD+RW, DVD+R as well as DVD-RW and DVD-R. (Yes, those dashes and plus signs mean different things folks!)
I could build a more modern machine that supports all of the important technologies listed above for half the price, without all the punk-ass neon light shit.
Is this an ad? (Score:2)
Is Slashdot selling out quietly?
Its like show horses (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't get it (Score:5, Insightful)
I figured that some poster had managed to sucker the editors into putting an ad up, but apparently people are really into this.
Can anyone tell me why people *care* about this? There's nothing particularly significant about this computer. It's not on the level of people introducing case windows for the first time, nor is it a never-before-done hardware hack. Some guy tossed a bunch of stuff that's already been done into a case, and is selling it for a *lot* of money. Big whoop.
This doesn't have unparalleled performance, since Sun sells systems that can smoke this thing.
It doesn't let home users do anything they couldn't do before, since no software requires this, and in two years it's going to be a middling system.
It's just another currently high-end x86 system. You can get things like this from a *ton* of vendors, with overclocking even.
Re:I don't get it (Score:2)
it's not freakkin high end even.
and the oc is ridiculously low for such a high price.. and why not use a real 3ghz cpu in the first place..
Re:I don't get it (Score:3, Interesting)
We still buy Sun, for ease of administration, reliability and warranty, but not for speed (or speed/cost ratio).
Stop the car analogies already (Score:4, Insightful)
So stop it.
Re:Stop the car analogies already (Score:2)
You take the best 4cyl Japanese car and I will take the top 8, 10 and 12 cyl cars and we will see who wins on 99.999% of the race tracks in the world. I don't mean to put down the likes of Honda or Nissan, I own a Nissan and love it, but to say that it would stand a chance against a Mustang or Camaro (comparable cars) is a joke. The only thing it would win on is gas milage.
I don't see too many people using 4cyl cars in Top Fule. Even the 6cyl gets beat in 1/8 mile races now....
Re:Your car has clear taillight lenses, right? ;-) (Score:2)
hmm, someone has never seen the WRC. The WRC spec Subaru WRX has a 2.0L 4 cylinder engine. It has been tested to go 0-60 in 4.3 seconds... on loose gravel!
I guess Lotus isn't an exotic supercar manufacturer any more
How about a Hayabusa? Its nice little naturally aspirated four takes it to 200mph very easily, once you replace the factory chip.
There is no substitute for displacement.
Keep telling yourself that every time you fill up your tank.
Re:Your car has clear taillight lenses, right? ;-) (Score:2)
A Hayabusa? That's a Motorcycle, no? What's it weigh, 500lbs at most? Non-sequitor anyone? Are you familiar with the concept of power to weight ratios?
I'm afraid your three red herrings aren't that red, and don't refute his argument either.
Re:Your car has clear taillight lenses, right? ;-) (Score:2)
A stock elise goes 0-60 in 5.7, but any Elise can outhandle just about any car on the road. It only weighs 1600# because it has a 4cyl engine, not a big bulky 8cyl.
My point is that power-to-weight and handling are everything. Displacement has nothing to do with it.
His numbered points make sense, but the rest is BS.
Re:Your car has clear taillight lenses, right? ;-) (Score:2)
well i've been driving through inches of snow and ice for the past few weeks. i only drive on "loose gravel" about once a month.
The Sub produces pretty good HP, but at what RPM? Lets not even start talking about torque
no really, lets talk [supercars.net] about it...
Power 223.7 kw / 300.0 bhp @ 5500 rpm
Torque 490 nm / 361.4 ft lbs
You're not going to see any Cobras or Z06's passing this one any time soon.
Re:Your car has clear taillight lenses, right? ;-) (Score:2)
Z06 = ~$45000 USD
WRX = ~$23000 USD
Now let's spend the $22K difference to make it even...
Well for <$5K we could take it up to 368HP with this stage 4 kit [turboxs.com]. Lets say it takes 15 hours for a professional installation at $100/hour then that takes us up another $1500 bringing us to a total of $29500.
Now let's smack on a Stage 3 short block [cobbtuning.com] for more reliability. That's another $6700 including labor. That takes us up to $36200.
Even though the AWD will easily make up the difference of HP vs. RWD (unless we're driving on a nice hot track) lets spend $2k more on a nitrous kit [extrememotorsports.com] just to make sure we can embarass the Z06.
That only takes us up to $38200.
$4000 for a stage 3 suspension kit [cobbtuning.com]. Taking us to $42000.
Wheels: 4 17x7.5 Prodrive GC-06D $1,900 [tirerack.com]
Tires: 4 225/45YR17 BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD $780
That will take us up to ~$45000. For a machine that will embarass pretty much anything else in that price range. You could argue the reliability of the WRX, but when you're comparing it with an American car is that really relevant?
Personally I'd rather just spend $12K on a Hayabusa (yes it is a motorcycle, yes it ONLY has a 4cyl engine) and embarass them both.
Re:Your car has clear taillight lenses, right? ;-) (Score:2)
The Elise [supercars.net] is $35k. Have you ever seen Elise's (or Miata's, or S2000's) at SCCA events? They clean house.
I can't argue price/performance, but its your definition of performance that I disagree with. You say performance is displacement, I say performance is power-to-weight and handling.
The original argument that I tried to make, and failed miserably (no I wasn't on the debate team), was that there are many factors that can make for a fast vehicle, and the number of cylinders (8 vs. 6 vs. 4 vs. etc...) doesn't always have a direct relationship with "performance".
Re:Your car has clear taillight lenses, right? ;-) (Score:2)
As proof, consider the V8 swaps that have been done into small cars such as the Fiero [v8archie.com] or even the Chevette [homestead.com]. (My first car was an '80 Chevette...a bigger engine would've kicked ass. :-) )
Re:Your car has clear taillight lenses, right? ;-) (Score:2)
The Ford Mustang has had the DOHC EFI V8 for some time now. The displacement went from 5.0 to 4.7 but the power stayed about the same. Hardly the "double the power output" that you claim.
4700cc making ~300 hp, at the crank, is no big deal. Especially in the 2 wheeled world where 599cc makes over 105hp, at the rear wheel (120ish at the crank).
As far as cubic inches versus hp, it is not a linear relationship. The higher the cubes, the less hp per cube. That is why a Chevy 454 makes not much more power than a 350. You would expect more, until you account for the fact that the 350 can rev faster, longer, and more reliably than the 454 can.
Re:Your car has clear taillight lenses, right? ;-) (Score:2)
2. Variable valve timing is to make up for inadeqaute port flow. Clean up the intake/exhaust ports and the need is very much reduced for this kinda thing.
3. Not realistic is it
4. Don't bring torque into this... 'there is no replacement for displacement' *cough* when you are talking torque. This is where reciprocating mass is important.
Anyways... hi tech is hydraulic valves, Ti components etc. What most, not all, but most, guys do to their Civics is what guys have been doing to their Chevy/Ford/Mopar for decades now. Cheap, effective mods.
Re:Your car has clear taillight lenses, right? ;-) (Score:2)
As I understand it, the block for the LT1 has remained fairly unchanged for a few decades... Now, what's in a block? A piece of steel, bored to X dimensions etc. The real fun at that point is introducing a new cam, new timings, different fuel map ratios, etc. The engines of today may have their roots in early 1900's design technology, but things such as aluminum heads (and aluminum block for the ls1, if I'm not mistaken) and better mapping of spark and fuel metering lead to improvements in the overall performance and efficiency from the engine.
And I do get 30mpg on the freeway.
Re:Is it me? (Score:3, Informative)
Still, if you didn't need the AGP performance, a Poweredge 1600SC with dual 2.4Ghz Xeons, 1GB RAM and a 10K rpm SCSI drive runs you about $2000. Dual 2.8G Xeons is about $800 more.