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Apple Now Selling Better Than One Laptop In Six

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the little-fruit-that-could dept.

Portables (Apple) 767

Lucas123 writes "Apple's share of the laptop market has grown over the past few years and the company is now beating Gateway in sales, according research firm NPD Group Inc. in Port Washington, NY. 'Their sales are continuing to grow faster than the rest of the marketplace,' the firm stated. In June Apple was responsible for 17.6% of laptops sold (at retail) in the US and is now in third place behind HP and Toshiba."

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College kids (4, Interesting)

PlusFiveInsightful (1148175) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391807)

Most college kids I see at coffee shops have a Mac notebook...
I guess Apple's strategy of marketing to younger people is finally paying off. Also, does this prove the iPod's halo effect is Real?

Re:College kids (5, Funny)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391841)

> Also, does this prove the iPod's halo effect is Real?

That's not the iPod's halo effect. That's the Vista Black Hole of Suck effect.

Re:College kids (3, Insightful)

cmowire (254489) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391939)

No, it's the Windows Black Hole of Suck effect.

Vista just made things worse.

The simple truth is that at least for IBM (now Levno) laptops and HP... and probably others... the build quality is just not there compared to Apple.

Plus, the risky gamble of allowing people to run Windows on their MacBooks really did work out. People can talk their employer into buying them a MacBook, instead of being issued a winblows machine.

Re:College kids (0, Flamebait)

Vancorps (746090) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392195)

I'm not saying no one has convinced their boss of this. Honestly only an idiot would buy a MacBook and run Windows instead of OS X. The build quality despite what you seem to say is identical. I've had to service both PC and Mac laptops for quite a while. All of our HP laptops were good to go out of the box and have been running solid for a year now. Conversely a few of the Macbooks purchased have had to be sent away. What does this mean? Absolutely nothing because manufacturing isn't where the problems lay. I'll never understand the mentality of buying a Mac and running Windows on it. If you're going to pay 10 grand for your graphics workstation you run it with software built specifically for it. That is how much our Mac Pro rig is going to cost which is ridiculous but it's what our designers are comfortable with.

Look at Dell's new commercials to see the real issue with them advertising their new product as containing no trialware which makes a lot of sense if you're a business. That extra crap is what was hurting PCs.

Windows despite what you seem to think doesn't suck, honestly I don't believe you really believe it does given how much of the world runs Windows without a problem. Vista, sure lots of issues surrounding that but Windows in general is all over the place and working just fine.

A pointless argument anyways. Apple has the cool effect and that is really the reason people are buying. As much as I personally don't like Apple's offerings their products do look professionally put together like someone actually took some time and thought the thing out unlike the i.Beat Blaxx mp3 player out there. That's the reason you see Apple gaining ground. OS X really sucks for kids as my boss has just discovered. He wanted to run some spyware software to monitor his 13 year old daughter. She has a MacBook and the software really is crap. The Windows version has network offloading and a billion other nifty features that consistently work. OS X really doesn't offer people anymore than Windows does, the software packaged with it Apple has done a nice job with. I've seen some HP in particular media center rigs that did it just as elegantly though.

The power is in the package, Apple has one hell of a package right now so their success makes sense.

Re:College kids (5, Interesting)

fyngyrz (762201) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392339)

Honestly only an idiot would buy a MacBook and run Windows instead of OS X.

Well, not exactly. Sort of. For instance, I run Windows XP sandboxed on my dual core MacBook Pro laptop, and that's the only place I run Windows at all. Windows isn't allowed to get to the net where it can get hurt, I just use it to host a few desktop applications that don't have Mac equivalents. With Parallels [parallels.com] "coherence" mode, I'm in the OSX filesystem for the images and other files I use under Windows, but I have the Mac right there doing the right things for everything else.

I also run a linux install pretty much the same way (though no coherence, unfortunately.) The linux install is allowed on the net because it considerably more secure "out there" than Windows is. I can run all three OS's at once without any problem and get realistic performance from all of them.

Hence, no need for a Windows machine, and no need to be an "idiot", either. ;-)

As for Vista... No need to go there. We won't be writing any applications using Vista specific capabilities, either. As far as I'm concerned, Vista was dead at the starting line.

Re:College kids (1)

cmowire (254489) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392483)

Oh, no, not running Windows 100% of the time. One can install Parallels or Bootcamp and run Windows when necessary, OS X the rest of the time. Between the "intranet" craze and all of the systems that got replaced with y2k, there's astonishingly few real windows applications that don't also run on the Mac that are crucial anymore.

The problem is that (not sure about Vista here... I know that XP has problems with this) Microsoft didn't solve everybody else's problems for them in the right way. If I want to be able to go from the Laptop LCD + desktop LCD configuration with the numeric keypad on my keyboard usable as a numeric keypad on the Mac, I just unplug a few cables and go. Meanwhile, Windows has no native way to make this work in a seamless fashion. So IBM would package a software package that tried to make it work, but the software was a piece of crap.

Even now, when somebody has to put something up on the projector, the MacBook users are ready to go instantly, whereas the HP laptop users spend at least 5 minutes tinkering with stuff.

So, yes, Windows is able to work properly. But have you ever asked a cook about his knives? He's got a favorite knife that is worn down in just the right places, with just the right weight and balance and sharpness. He'll hate using a cheap ginsu knife because it won't cut quite as well and will need to be sharpened a little more often. When something becomes your primary tool, even little flaws get amplified.

Re:College kids (5, Interesting)

mycoupons (1148887) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392121)

My youngest son is a new freshman at Kent State. He wanted a Mac, I got him a Mac and well... one for myself too. When comparing my MacBook to my ThinkPad running Linux (or my office machine running Linux), I look forward to heading home not only for the beer but to use my Mac. Steve Jobs understands that things need to just work, period, they need to be straight forward and easy to use and great design is important. The Mac just works.

As soon as my company moves from the red to the black, I'm investing in MacBooks for my entire staff. I'm no zealot, I'm a business man. I want my people to be productive and I want my people to enjoy their work. After spending a few weeks getting used to the interface, I honestly believe that my people will enjoy using their computers. The really amusing thing is that I really like MS Office on the Mac a hundred times better than on Windows. Entourage is actually pretty cool (when compared to Outlook or dEvolution) and after learning it I love it.

When choosing whether to move the company from XP to Vista or just to a Mac, if I can pull it off financially, Mac it will be and Vista will never make it in the door.

Re:College kids (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20392235)

That's not the iPod's halo effect. That's the Vista Black Hole of Suck effect.
Dark Helmet: Sandurz, what's going on?
Colonel Sandurz: It's Mega Maid. She gone from suck to blow.

What you say!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20392253)

> That's the Vista Black Hole of Suck effect.

Goatse!?

Eww, I have to go wash my brain now.

Re:College kids (3, Interesting)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392267)

No windows has suck for a long time. If anything I would say it would be the iPod halo effect... Why...
First iPods are rather cheap and can be considered an impulse buy for Middle Middle class-Wealthy people for Poor- Lower Middle Class an iPod Shuffle would be at christmas gift.
Being that they are in these price ranges a lot of people are using these and realize they like they way that Apple does things.
Being happy with apple products using iTunes and checking the Apple Web site every once in a while to see what is new or going to the Apple store or to the Apple section of the stores they will see other Apples Product
Seeing their products knowing you are happy with the brand you are more likely to get that brand.
Now that you see and know the specs for say an Apple Notebook you go out and compare prices of PCs vs Apples based on Apples Specs and you find they are competitive price (If you Compare Apples to PC Specs they are Apples are expensive) So you go with Apple.

Also Apple has good word of mouth advertising and a loyal fan base. Most people I known once they switch to Mac and allow themselves to get use to it are actually very happy with their Mac, and they repeat buy. Heck I am on my second Mac that is the first time I purchased the same brand after the old model went obsolete (and it is not about fear of switching OS's, I went From a TI-99 (1984-1988), DOS 2 Box (1988-1992), * Windows 3.1 (1992-1997), Linux (1997-2001), Solaris (2001-2002), Mac OS X (2002-2006), Mac OS X intel (2006 - Present) so I am use to swiching primary OS's)

* I switched to Linux back in 1994

Re:College kids (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20392447)

IT IS NOT THE IPOD HALO, spreading stories that it is, just spreads hype and bullshit. The Ipod has improved Apple's image, but if Vista was worth more than dogshit on a laptop, Apple would still be screwed.

Re:College kids (1)

ShaneThePain (929627) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391855)

Ive seen quite a few macbooks on my campus. So I know apple is getting some much needed market share. I would have bought one myself if they didnt cost twice as much as they should. I like 15.4 inch laptops and Apple's choice starts at 1500, with a slow HD and little RAM. In addition, the OS lacks DirectX, so What if I want to play a game here and there? Im screwed. Instead I bought a ASUS laptop with 2GB of RAM, a 7200RPM HD, a Core 2 Duo 2 Ghz and a Nvidia Geforce 8600M GPU. All for 1500.

Re:College kids (5, Informative)

vux984 (928602) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392443)

What if I want to play a game here and there? Im screwed.

Screwed? Hardly. Haven't you heard, mac's run on intel now. For a measly $100 bucks you can add an OEM Windows in a separate boot partition and run all your windows directx games. For another few bucks you can get Parallels or VMware Fusion and run most applications from inside windows on top of OSX, including some directx stuff.

You are hardly screwed.

I would have bought one myself if they didnt cost twice as much as they should.

Now, apple upgrade pricing is a scam, but you don't have to buy your 2nd stick of ram or hard drive upgrade from Apple.

Most of the price difference between Apple and PC is actually represented in the 2ndary specs, and build quality. If you were to spec a dell or asus that matches on all the 2ndary features, the price premium for apple is a pittance. (Now whether you want or care about those features is a separate issue.)

Instead I bought a ASUS laptop with 2GB of RAM, a 7200RPM HD, a Core 2 Duo 2 Ghz and a Nvidia Geforce 8600M GPU.

Good on you, for finding what you need. Is it a better deal than an apple? Hard to say.

You paid 1500 for it, and the 15-inch apple MBPro is 1999, or 30% more (hardly the twice you were moaning about). That gets you an 8600M GPU, 2.2GHz Core 2 Duo CPU, and 5400 rpm drive. Sounds about even for 499 more, right? Slight bump up on the cpu, but a hit on HD speed.

So... does the asus have firewire? (firewire 800 no less?) gigabit or just 10/100? a camera? bluetooth? a remote control? microphone? is it heavier or lighter? is it thinner or thicker? Does it have a remote? DVI out or only VGA? 802.11n or just a/b/g? is the keyboard backlit? Does it have a magnetic release on the power-cord? express-card slot?

Im sure the asus has at least some of those. But I doubt it has most of them. And if you add it all up, there is a good chunk of value in there, easily enough to justify the extra 400-500 for a lot of people.

And that's before we get into the ease of use, virus situation, unix under the hood, and other soft advantages of the Mac OS platform.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a mac fanboy, and I'm not saying a Mac is right for everyone. My last purchase was a 4GB RAM 3.1GHz (2.5GHz overclocked) Core2 Quad PC with Vista U x64 / Ubuntu Feisty x64 on separate 500GB drives, and an 8600GTS; I have no regrets; the iMac was worlds away from what I needed (hello PCI slots for testing medical video capture equipment). And a Mac Pro simply wasn't a good value for this unit. (That said, my next purchase is likely to be a Mac Book Pro 15".)

But I am defending Apples product and pricing as good value, because for what you get, it is. (upgrade pricing aside!) It might not be what YOU or I need, from a given system, but that's a separate issue.

Re:College kids (2, Insightful)

BronsCon (927697) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391901)

No, it proves that people who would have bought an IBM ThinkPad want the best. Since the LeNovo ThinkPad is not the IBM ThinkPad, the best is now the MacBook Pro.

Or, anything at this point is just conjecture and this is nothing more than a small market fluctuation, the meaning of which we won't know for years to come.

I have no affilliation with either of the companies I mentioned, nor do I own any of their products. This post was typed on a Compaq notebook. ...

and, as I have karma to spare... ...

IMPEACH BUSH!

Re:College kids (4, Funny)

croddy (659025) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391927)

Or, it could simply be that they are genuinely afraid of Dells. Apple has certainly burst into this market, but Dell's products are literally bursting.

Re:College kids (1)

The Great Pretender (975978) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392051)

"Apple's share of the laptop market has grown over the past few years and the company is now beating Gateway in sales. So Apples market share is the trigger point for company buy outs....interesting

Re:College kids (1)

BronsCon (927697) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392053)

Ok, so I open with a joke, make a valid point, state that I'm not engaging in fanboyism and make a political comment and now I'm a troll?

Okay. I guess I should have expected that.

Re:College kids (1)

Sunburnt (890890) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392317)

Ok, so I open with a joke, make a valid point, state that I'm not engaging in fanboyism and make a political comment and now I'm a troll?

You must be new here.

Re:College kids (1)

Loconut1389 (455297) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392357)

you did say you had karma to spare :)

Re:College kids (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20392363)

Ok, so I open with a joke, make a valid point, state that I'm not engaging in fanboyism and make a political comment and now I'm a troll?
and now you are whining troll.

Re:College kids (4, Interesting)

cp.tar (871488) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392167)

No, it proves that people who would have bought an IBM ThinkPad want the best. Since the LeNovo ThinkPad is not the IBM ThinkPad, the best is now the MacBook Pro.

This is as close to my case as could be expected.

I wanted a T61p. With Linux. Or FreeDOS. Or empty. Whatever; I just didn't want to pay for Windows. I'm not using it, I'm not paying for it. Period.

In the time it took me to collect the money, it was out of stock - mostly everywhere (in Croatia). Except for a more expensive version with Vista, and I'm not that stupid.

Then someone told me I could buy a MacBook Pro for that kind of money anyway. Oh, really?
Turned out, oh, yes, really. Comparable hardware, comparable price, available, polished, and with an OS I actually would and do use.

I'm only having some trouble installing Linux on it, but I'll get there, too.

And if I only found a way to stop my gf from trying to steal it... (I think it's because of the remote.)

Re:College kids (0, Redundant)

psychicsword (1036852) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391949)

Most college kids I see at coffee shops have a Mac notebook...

I confim this theory.

I am currently typing from my University dorm room(at a technical school) and a know a lot of the people in the Computer and Information Sciences college have macs. Although a lot of people, including myself, are still using windows computers(mainly Dells because of the discount).

The conclusion... Macs are making a comeback but they still have a way to go. Such as a smaller price tag so I can afford the computer. Even with the school's discount I would have to pay $3000 for a Mac laptop with weaker parts than my $1500 laptop.

Plus Macs sucks with gaming where my Intel Core2 Duo laptop with powerful GeForce 8600M GS does not.
I admit the GeForce isn't the strongest out there but for the price it kicks ass.

Re:College kids (1)

lewellyn (38689) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392189)

So, my MacBook Pro with a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo and a GeForce 8600M GT with 256MB of RAM sucks at gaming compared to your PC laptop?

Re:College kids (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20392237)

"Plus Macs sucks with gaming where my Intel Core2 Duo laptop with powerful GeForce 8600M GS does not."

Macs are Intel-based. You can get a 4-core if you want. You can use GeForce cards in a Mac also. And heck you don't have all that Vista bloat-ware to slow down your computer.

The only reason you don't see games on the Mac like you used to is because the game companies decided to concentrate on the largest market segment. And to the ignoramus that thinks DirectX is the reason you don't get $200 and you don't get to pass go...better luck next time.

Re:College kids (1)

Tsiangkun (746511) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391955)

I know a lot of programmers who have apple notebooks.

Perhaps that whole, geeks can use their unixy ways,
open and save the boss's prefered file formats, and
still have visual appeal is paying off.

Many of Dell's laptops suck (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20391985)

A lot of "budget" laptops have Vista that have no business running on them.

Basically, if a laptop has less that 2 GB of RAM and a decent graphics card, it should NOT be sold with Vista.

If Dell was smart they wouldn't see a single laptop that didn't have 2GB of RAM.

What's happening is people buy these ugly underpowered Windows laptops, many brands with crappy trialware pre-installed -- and then see the performance of a Mac.

Re:College kids (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20392029)

Or maybe the types that prefer to sit in college coffee shops prefer the Macbook. You know, like the stereotypical long-haired Bohemian artist types. Maybe all the ones with Dell Inspirons are hiding in their dorm rooms, playing World of Warcraft.

I just wouldn't draw too many conclusions from your sample, although it's always been historically true that Apple has had a disproportionate portable market share compared to desktops. The economics and form factor of notebooks seem to be a much better fit for Apple's business model in the first place.

Re:College kids (4, Interesting)

datapharmer (1099455) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392203)

I don't know about the ipod effect, but something is definitely working, and I think some of it is quality and ease of use.

I looked around in a large lecture hall class of 100+ at University of Florida and 4/5 of the laptops were macs of some sort, and most of those were the new macbooks. They are at the price point parents can afford to get their kids (I mean seriously.... a crap dell of for a few hundred more something that won't burn down the dorm room), small enough to put in a backpack (there is a lot of wasted screen real-estate compared to the powerbook, but alas they still get the job done), and are powerful enough to do almost anything a college class could require (except maybe some 3d graphics work - FCP works fine).

When I got my powerbook a few years back it was almost a grand more than many other laptops (sony vaios and some upper end thinkpads aside), but the difference is I am still using it, and despite having it get pulled off a desk by my dog twice and being dropped, bumped, and lugged around to 3 jobs, clients houses, and college classes it is still working great. The screen was starting to degrade so I replaced it for $210, but that was ENTIRELY my fault. If it were most other machines it would be in the garbage.

45% of Apple laptops are returned... (-1, Troll)

The_Abortionist (930834) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392227)

Wow, that's quite a higher number. If we take this into account, Apple becomes almost dead last.

Back to School is the Apple equivalent of Easter. Parents buy their kids little bunnies and duckies, but two weeks later, they end up left to die on their own...

I wish that Apple stories were more grounded in facts than in sensasionalism...

Re:College kids (3, Interesting)

jShort (1140435) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392251)

I work at the bookstore at my college, and I recomend Mac laptops to almost everybody who comes in here. We sell Dell laptops as well, but price/preformance is crap compared to Mac, and most of the students here are commuters, who will gladly pay $999 for a well-eqquiped computer that only weighs 5 pounds and fits into just about any backpack. Comporable Dells are thicker, wider, and heavier, and no fun to carry around at all. The only people who get a Dell recomendation are certian business and engineering studends who absolutely must have windows, or people who can only afford the cheapest laptop, which happens to be Dell.

Re:College kids (0, Troll)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392323)

No, this is the "entitled douchebag" effect.

More to Come (4, Interesting)

mordors9 (665662) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391847)

Let me preface my comments by saying that I have not used in a Mac in 6 years or more. So I am not a zealot. From what I saw at Best Buy this weekend, I think the sales may go up even more. I hadn't realized that they were selling them now, but I saw a crowd ganged around a table where they had the laptops and iMacs sitting out for people to play around with. There was a steady stream of people and you could feel a sense of excitement about it. Unfortunately I was there to buy a washer and dryer...

Re:More to Come (4, Funny)

McLovin (1145861) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391943)

Listen, up.


If you want titties and beer, buy a macbook.


Got that? Titties (.Y.) and BEER!


If you want to join the chess club, buy a PC.

Re:More to Come (4, Funny)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392303)

If you want titties and beer, buy a macbook.

We *are* talking IT.
There is already plenty of man-boob and drinking to go around.

Re:More to Come (1)

Dakkus (567781) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392367)

Slashdot misses the ability to moderate posts as "just plain stupid".

Re:More to Come (1)

HTTP Error 403 403.9 (628865) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392487)

If you want titties and beer, buy a macbook.
Actually if you Titties & Beer, buy Frank Zappa's, "Zappa in New York [youtube.com] ".

Re:More to Come (5, Funny)

feepness (543479) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391945)

Unfortunately I was there to buy a washer and dryer...
If you can't get excited about buying a matching washer/dryer set then you've just lost your taste for life.

Re:More to Come (5, Funny)

NCraig (773500) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392111)

Sounds like a big day... I wonder if he had time for Bed Bath & Beyond.

Re:More to Come (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20391951)

"There was a steady stream of people and you could feel a sense of excitement about it."

Interesting. When I pull out my MacBook Pro at work, I always get questions and expressed interest from people with the typical business laptop. Some say they would love one but are "stuck" with norm.

Re:More to Come (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392061)

I get about the same thing. Before when I was using a normal PC I would make this ubber setup and no one will notice it and no one would care, Then with my MacBook Pro I get random people stop in and comment on my laptop computer. Normally if I am running parallels at the time people stop and realize that if they went with a Mac they would gain more then they loss.

More letters to Come (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20391999)

"Unfortunately I was there to buy a washer and dryer..."

The iWasher and the iDryer.

Re:More to Come (1)

cp.tar (871488) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392221)

From what I saw at Best Buy this weekend, I think the sales may go up even more. I hadn't realized that they were selling them now, but I saw a crowd ganged around a table where they had the laptops and iMacs sitting out for people to play around with. There was a steady stream of people and you could feel a sense of excitement about it.

Macs have always been considered as overpriced.

From what I've seen in the last few weeks, they are still regarded as such, but to a much lesser extent - a year ago, there was not a single topic about Macs on the largest Croatian forum; now there are quite a few, and most are about MacBooks.

I think their desktop sales will go up as well - for one, when I finish college and start earning real money, I'm switching my desktop to Mac, too. But I know people enough who want a Mac as well.

Brand Synergy (3, Insightful)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391851)

Yes that is an over used term, but in this case it is warranted. With all the brand exposure over the last few years (ipod) and more recently (iphone) is it suprising that people are getting the idea that Apple makes cool stuff?

With Vista firmly planted on the rocks, Apple are in a strongest position they have been in since the original Mac.

Re:Brand Synergy (2, Informative)

MouseR (3264) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392179)

You're missing a key point: Boot Camp and the promise of multi-boot makes getting an Apple machine a polyvalent solution.

How many really bother? (1)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392319)

Boot Camp is mostly just a nice marketing gadget. It tells people they can move to Mac hardware without the "risk" of cutting themselves off from Windows. But, this is mostly just a feel-good/hand-hold to ease the transition. Once people have switched to a Mac what % really use Boot Camp and run Windows? I don't have any numbers but I guess once people experience OSX there's very little motivation to buy an XP license.

Re:How many really bother? (1)

MouseR (3264) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392471)

Your guesses dont count as market data.

Most of my colleges that bought Mac laptops in the past 2 years have done so because they can multi-boot Windows and Mac OS X. They do so because as product managers, developers and marketing directors, they can show off and test our products wich are multiplatform. They now carry a single machine for all 3 platforms rather than 2 machines, or only a Windows box.

Friends of mine that were not on Macs (I call them computationally-challenged friends :-) and that have bought Macs recently (laptop or not) have done so because they could use it for their strict university or work environment requirements wich requires Windows. Some have eventually, as you say, decided to live in Mac OS X, but some, at times, will boot in Windows for one reason or another.

For this, I count about 20 non-Mac heads that have gotten Macs in that two year spawn.

Re:Brand Synergy (0)

blhack (921171) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392239)

I just hope that the people buying their computers from best buy understand that with a mac, the VAST majority of software out there is not going to run. Most of us have used linux (I would assume, this being /. and all)...imagine the frustration that you sometimes have looking for a program that does what you need (like a quicken alternative, or a crystal reports alternative). Now imagine that you don't fully understand why the old program you used to use doesn't work, and imagine that the ones that get close to doing what you need all cost money.

Re:Brand Synergy (1)

fyngyrz (762201) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392457)

I just hope that the people buying their computers from best buy understand that with a mac, the VAST majority of software out there is not going to run.

I run a dual core macbook pro with Parallels. I run OSX, XP, and RH linux concurrently on it. I can run 98, too, I just usually don't. I can run a lot of the software out there on the machine. Far more than someone running just Windows. So I'm afraid your contention doesn't hold water. When people see my mac, they're not likely to go back to a windows laptop with a very positive attitude. But my Mac isn't particularly different from any other modern Mac in this capability.

Re:Brand Synergy (5, Interesting)

gujo-odori (473191) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392247)

How cool is Apple's industrial design?

When I started a new job in January, they issued me a MacBook Pro. The first time I brought it home and pulled it out of my bag, my four year old daughter - who is used to various desktops, LCD and CRT monitors, my and my wife's Thinkpads, and the Toshiba Tecra I had at my previous employer - immediately popped it with "Wow, that's a cool computer!" as soon as she saw it.

She'd never seen a Mac before, has no clear idea about brands and stuff, yet immediately recognized that it looked cooler than the other computers she's seen. Couple that level of cool with OS X and you have a winner, so Apple's surging laptop market share doesn't surprise me.

Re:Brand Synergy (3, Informative)

Plutonite (999141) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392361)

In addition to that, they have hit the sweetest spots on both desktop and laptop markets with their high-end intel based hardware. I am no fanboy, used windows (games, dev) linux and BSD (most everything else) in the past, now I bought the second macbook pro model and I am blown away by the quality of the hardware. My god.. a REAL wireless card that actually supports passive monitoring? And a mid-to-high range nvidia 8600GT with enough speed and RAM to run anything graphical AND support Direct X 10 on Vista, which you can boot up natively like a charm with apple software? I tell you, it's a good laptop, and considering it has the absolute top of the line intel has to offer in terms of mobile processors, plus 2 gigs of main mem, plus all the normal fun stuff, it's worth the 2.5 thou. This is many times better than the crappy plastic dell, alienware and even Asus (which I hugely respect for quality engineering) will sell you. It's not just that the hardware is better, the bootcamp deal gives people al the motivation they need if they have the money. Yes, I'm still pretty sure I'm not a fanboy :)

iBook (1)

Photonic Shadow (1119225) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391865)

I'm not surprised by this. In terms of Apple computer products the iBook is the closest thing to the iPod. Also laptops tend to be viewed by the public as more personal in nature than desktops. The question is now: how far up the Mac line the iPod carryover will go?

PS

Lies, damned lies, and statistics (5, Informative)

MiKM (752717) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391867)

For those too lazy to read the summary, this doesn't include online sales.

Re:Lies, damned lies, and statistics (1)

PlusFiveInsightful (1148175) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391907)

So eighteen percent of the time, forty percent of statistics are wrong?

Re:Lies, damned lies, and statistics (1)

L4m3rthanyou (1015323) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391921)

Not to mention OEM sales for businesses, which aren't huge compared to desktops, but growing nonetheless.

And, the fact that Apple has its own brick-and-mortar retail stores all over certainly helps skew the statistics in their favor. A good portion of people looking for Dell/HP/Gateway know to look online for a deal.

Re:Lies, damned lies, and statistics (1)

DECS (891519) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391941)

NPD's numbers only cover most retail stores (although they don't include major retailers like WalMart), and exclude Apple's own retail stores.

The also exclude online stores like Amazon and Apple, and direct marketers like Dell.

However, that means Apple's outside retail sales have jumped by nearly double. That would suggest that Apple's own sales are also doing "well."

Apple set a new record of 1.7 million Macs last quarter, which is commonly its slowest quarter. This quarter is back to school, and next is Christmas, so it will be interesting to see where sales go.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/ [roughlydrafted.com]

Re:Lies, damned lies, and statistics (1)

cp.tar (871488) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392491)

For those too lazy to read the summary, this doesn't include online sales.

I don't know which way you're aiming: I bought my MacBook Pro online.

So while a good point in itself (that the data is incomplete), it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Banging 'em bucks. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20391881)

" In June Apple was responsible for 17.6% of laptops sold (at retail) in the US and is now in third place behind HP and Toshiba.""

Eh? So much for the overpriced for value stereotype.

At retail... (1)

Bluesman (104513) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391897)

Snore. Let's see the actual numbers that include direct order.

That's not to say that this isn't impressive, but how about keeping the sensationalism down a bit?

In any event, this doesn't really get me excited, as I'm even less inclined to buy into Apple's expensive machines when I can run FreeBSD or Linux on the cheapest of the cheap laptops and be very happy.

It's too bad that more market share for Apple doesn't translate into more open hardware specs instead of "we support Windows and Mac OS."

Re:At retail... (1)

StevenAD (1002662) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392007)

I could run FreeBSD or Linux on a cheap machine too, but that means I have to do work. And I know a few Linux fanboys out there are gonna tell me it's really easy, but any work on Linux is still more work than no work on a Mac. I spent my time trying out Ubuntu, and even what's supposedly one of the most user-friendly distros still took a fair bit of technical work so it would cooperate with my hardware.
With Mac, I know everything's going to work and I won't have to do a damn thing. And that's all I want. I buy a computer so I can do something productive or fun, not so I can work towards being able to do something productive or fun.

Re:At retail... (4, Insightful)

Warin (200873) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392013)

You can run FreeBSD or Linux on the "expensive" Apple machine as well. Heck, you can also run Vista on one, if you must!

The cheapest of the cheap laptops are generally sucktastic, big, and heavy (And generally come pre-installed with Vista). My MacBook Pro is far more stylish and compact than almost every other equivalently priced Windows notebooks. OS X is a joy to use, and coupled with an AG-HVX200, Final Cut Studio, and a couple of big external drives... and I am a production unit on the go. It just works best for what I do. Which is why I "drank the koolaid" in 2003 and bought a Mac to start with. After 17 years of using MS-DOS and then Windows... I am loving being an "Apple Fanboi" and I cant see going back to Windows for anything other than the occasional game.

I think a lot of people are discovering that OS X just works, and doesnt need the sort of tinkering and maintenance that Windows rigs generally do to stay in top running shape.

I cant remember the last time I did a virus scan or a defrag...

Oh...

Last week...

On my roomies computer, so the damn XP rig would actually work again.

Re:At retail... (1)

Robert1 (513674) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392043)

Congrats on being happy with a shitty laptop that can run linux. You are an infintesimal part of the market and conceited to boot.

Re:At retail... (0, Offtopic)

StevenAD (1002662) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392153)

Mod parent up, burn.

Re:At retail... (2, Informative)

serviscope_minor (664417) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392193)

In any event, this doesn't really get me excited, as I'm even less inclined to buy into Apple's expensive machines when I can run FreeBSD or Linux on the cheapest of the cheap laptops and be very happy.

Well, then you're not in Apple's target market. Personally, I'd buy an expensive laptop and run Linux or FreeBSD on it, since I value things like light weight, long battery life and fans that don't sound like a turbojet. If you factor in the hardware and include things like noise level, size, weight, build quality etc then Apple laptops aren't bad value in their price range.

Same Old, Same Old (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20391911)

And in the coming months when Apple slips back down the Apple fanboys won't be feverishly submitting stories all over the Net.

Years and years we keep hearing about Apple "exploding in marketshare" - usually right after there has been a long awaited model upgrade - and yet the marketshare continues to flounder right down in the 2 percent range.

Keep hope alive Apple fanboys! The computing world is clearly on the verge of buying single vendor overpriced boutique hardware running a niche OS any day now...

not a complete picture (1)

fred fleenblat (463628) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391919)

from TFA:
> NPD, which collects its data primarily from retail sources and excludes
> most online and all direct sales

Given what a large (and qualitatively different) chunk of the market has been excluded from the stats, it doesn't seem like their 1/6 number is necessarily representative of the full state of the laptop market.

Who are the selling them to? (1)

yAm (15181) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391947)

I'm writing this on a four year old G4 Tibook that continues to run and run and run...

I may never buy a new laptop again at this rate. Or, at least until OS X doesn't work on PPC chips.

Then, I'll just run OpenBSD...

Re:Who are the selling them to? (1)

StevenAD (1002662) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392085)

Kudos to that. I'm writing this on a 9 year old G3 Powerbook that continues to run and run and run...

Who am I kidding, this thing can barely handle five tabs in Firefox, let alone anything else I'd like to do on a computer. I hope to buy a new laptop ASAP, and when I do it will be with the company that made this decade-old machine.

Re:Who are the selling them to? (2, Insightful)

MalleusEBHC (597600) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392291)

Who are the selling them to?

I'm writing this on a four year old G4 Tibook that continues to run and run and run...


They're probably selling them to people with 6 or 7 year old Macs. Getting 6-7 years of useful life out of a Mac is quite common. This is a testament to how well OS X has supported older hardware. (Let's see Vista on a 7 year old machine.) I'm much in the same boat as you; I've got a 4 year old PowerMac G5 and a 3 year old AlBook. As much as the geek in me would love to find an excuse to get a shiny new toy, both machines still serve my needs quite well.

Fuckers (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20391957)

Let the Reign of Fail begin!

It's not the iPod effect, it's the *Vista* effect (1)

zooblethorpe (686757) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391963)

My $0.02 armchair guesstimate is that Vista's resounding belly flop is helping Apple's sales figures. For most of those who yearn to escape Microsoft's bumbling clutches, the Orchard is definitely more inviting than the herring-scented wilds of Linuxland. I've got at least one family member of my own who has looked out through the broken window and found the air under the apple trees to be a very welcome change (and two others are seriously considering it).

Cheers,

Re:It's not the iPod effect, it's the *Vista* effe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20392427)

All new Windows laptops sold are Vista. What's even worse, the hardware in these new laptops does not readily support Windows XP. I just bough a Gateway MT6711 from BestBuy for $450 closeout sale. The geek at BestBuy said it was impossible to install Windows XP on this model. At that point a normal person would have walked out. It took me 5 hours, combining drivers from HP, Toshiba, Intel, Motorola, Realtek and Marvel, to get the Gateway running XP. I'm thinking about setting up a shop to install Windows XP in these new Vista-only laptops. Seems like there is a demand.

What percentage of the retail market are laptops? (1)

Starteck81 (917280) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391973)

What percentage of the retail market are laptops? If it's a high percentage then that would mean that an increasing number of people are truly abandoning windows. I for one would love to survey those who have purchased Apple laptops with the following.

1. Long time Apple evangelist.
2. Recent convert. I use to use Windows XP.
3. Recent convert. I don't like/hate Vista.

If the third option is chosen then we would could with some certainty conclude that MS finally has shot itself in the foot with Vista. If option three is not the majority answer then I guess the holy war debate will continue. ;-)

You insensitive clod! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20392279)

How about the option: "I used to use Linux and switched when I found out that someone could make *nix both pretty and easy to use!"

(Not that I found Linux hard to use, but I wasted a lot of time with sysadmin tasks. I cherish that time because it taught me a lot, but in the end, after I'd learned enough, I just wanted to be productive. I'd still choose Linux over Windows any day.)

it makes complete sense- (0, Redundant)

Ralph Spoilsport (673134) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391979)

Apple makes really beautiful and very well built computers that come bundled with lots of useful software. Now that they run Intel, they can run windows as well. Their laptops are expensive, but they are extremely well equipped. I'm suprised they don't sell MORE of them than they do. I'd take a MacBook Pro over DellBoxen any day of the week.

RS

Re:it makes complete sense- (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20392089)

Except that without a second or third button, other GUI become annoying, since right-click context menus are common and useful. The real deal-breaker for me is that the mounted pointing device has only one button, so replacing the OS won't result in that much satisfaction.

Re:it makes complete sense- (1)

ditoa (952847) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392105)

I just bought a Dell Vostro 1500. I was _very_ tempted at a MacBook or MacBook Pro but neither of them suited me. I wanted a sub £1000 notebook with dedicated graphics and a 15.4" screen. The MacBook Pro may be more powerful than the Vostro I ordered but it was also more then £1000 more expensive as the MBP I customised up on Apple.com was £1978 with the 7200RPM HDD and 3 year apple care.

The Vostro I ordered was a 2.2Ghz Core2Duo, 2GB RAM (667Mhz), 160GB 7200RPM HDD, 15.4" 1440x900 screen, Nvidia 8600M GT 256MB graphics card, bluetooth, 802.11a/b/g/n, 4 year on site warrenty (I only get warranties on laptops as I find they tend to break for me :P and it was ok value at £103 for 4 years), some dodgy Dell all in one printer and a naff nylon carry back and Vista Home Premium for £847 delivered. While it might not have OS X and while its look and build might not be as good as the MacBook/MacBook Pro I cannot justify a price difference of more than £1000.

Re:it makes complete sense- (1)

ditoa (952847) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392149)

Apologies for replying to myself but I felt I should point out that the MBP did have a 2.4Ghz processor whereas the Vostro has a 2.2Ghz. Still I doubt that 200Mhz will make that much difference in the long run. Also the MBP has an LED backlit screen whereas the Vostro is CCFL however I didn't see any difference when using a LED MBP or Dell M1330 recently although it should keep the battery running longer.

Is this even newsworthy? (1)

ameyer17 (935373) | more than 7 years ago | (#20391991)

If this article was about HP's 28.4% market share or Dell's 23.8% market share in total computer sales according to IDC (like this one [computerworld.com] , this wouldn't be on Slashdot. That said, it's great that an alternative to Windows is becoming somewhat mainstream, but we don't need quite so many articles about it, it's starting to become like "Vista adoption slow" or "Microsoft hates its customers" or "Microsoft is gaming ISO" or "It's finally the year of the Linux Desktop" or "Firefox gaining marketshare", we've heard it a million times, and it's not really news anymore...

So Apple is proud... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20391993)

...that they don't suck as much as Gateway? Seriously, Gateways are a POS. All of them. Ever. The only decent things were their servers, and that was via acquisition. When Apple starts beating Dell, HP, Sony, Toshiba, etc, then they should be proud. Oh, and I'm a current Mac owner. Have been since the late 80's.

Compare on price their share is bigger (-1, Flamebait)

netsavior (627338) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392059)

As I see it the average Mactop is about 3x the price of the average Laptop... that means their share is closer to 38% of the market

Gateway is the company to beat (like a dead horse) (5, Interesting)

the.Ceph (863988) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392069)

I find it kinda amusing that either earlier today or yesterday there was an article about how Gateway got bought out for just over a dollar a share and most the comments were tashing the company's business model and how it was driven into the ground.
  Then this article triumphs being tied with Gateway as an achievement.

Re:Gateway is the company to beat (like a dead hor (2, Insightful)

VirusEqualsVeryYes (981719) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392325)

The music industry's business model is busted. Traditional news media's business model is busted. Hell, you could argue that Microsoft's is busted. Having a busted business model doesn't mean that a company is small or easy to beat.

Apple is further hampered by their policy of selling their own OS on their own hardware, while Gateway piggybacked on the success of Windows. Apple still beat them out. So, yes, I'd say that's an achievement -- if only an achievement until Gateway is bought by Acer, but an achievement nonetheless.

Low Price difference (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20392107)

White Macbook - $1099
Dell Ubuntu - $959 (configure similar to Macbook)

And imagine you are just another teenager buying a laptop. Do you think Apple won't be able to impress you?

But What of the Long Term? (2, Interesting)

rueger (210566) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392161)

This will get modded flamebait, but I doubt that this bump in sales will be sustainable.

I expect that lot of these new Apple buyers are people who, like me, just grew weary of Microsoft,their attitude, and the endless virus and other problems.

The problem for Apple is that they, and the fanboys, are selling the product as perfection, as complete out of the box, as seamless and needing no attention beyond plugging in the power supply once a day.

The reality of course is much different. Macs have some pretty serious deficiencies, even in the much vaunted user interface. Macs crash just like a Windows computer. Macs experience hardware issues. Macs, if you use them heavily, need regular maintenance to keep them running smoothly.

After two years with a Mac I tell people that really it's no more or less easy to use than a Windows machine, and has just as many irritations and problems. They're just different irritations and problems.

Because Apple sells their computers as the most perfect thing in the world, all of those day to day issues seem that much more disappointing.

My guess is that a lot of these "switchers" will hang onto their MacBooks for one cycle, then revert back to Windows in order to avoid compatibility issues, cost issues, and in some situations the lack of specific software that isn't available on the Mac.

At the end of the day there just isn't that much about the Mac that makes it a slam dunk for every user.

Re:But What of the Long Term? (3, Informative)

ummit (248909) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392365)

I won't mod you as flamebait (no mod points today), but I will respond to this bit:

Macs crash just like a Windows computer. Macs experience hardware issues. Macs, if you use them heavily, need regular maintenance to keep them running smoothly.

You're one for three, in my experience. Hardware issues: yeah, I've had a few. But my Mac just never crashes. And I have no idea what you're talking about when you say that "heavy usage" implies "regular maintenance". My Mac runs smoothly all the time, and the only "maintenance" I do is backing it up regularly.

Re:But What of the Long Term? (1)

no_opinion (148098) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392489)

Generally I agree, but I think there is a tangible difference. I just switched back to a Mac at work, where I have to run MS office and Entourage to remain compatible with everyone else. The windows file browser is better than the Mac's in some ways and worse in others. MS Office has TONS of weird mac-specific quirks. But for most things the Mac UI is cleaner and faster. I like the fact that the OS isn't constantly asking me things (clean up your unused icons?). I like that the OS seems to have fewer random problems as a result of new software installs. Boot times on the Mac are WAY faster. Expose is awesome if you like working with lots of windows open at once. Unix is under the hood.

Even though I know Steve Jobs is going to screw me eventually, for now I'm a convert. I fully expect to be switching back to MSFT after Apple loses their way and starts sacrificing functionality for design aesthetic. And then in 5 years, I'll switch back.

Brand confidence has some effect (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20392163)

People have been told 'Apple is dying' for decades. This makes your average Joe inclined to avoid them.

But when you have young people, who haven't had this drummed into them, and they see the success of the iPod and the iPhone, they're happy to consider a Mac just like any other brand. And because they have an iPod, there's brand awareness, so it may well be the first laptop they look at. And if they like it, they're sold and out of the market for something else.

National Shortage of 15" Models (1)

Kur (195888) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392183)

Just last week, I went into an Apple store to buy my wife a 15" Macbook Pro. The salesperson told me they had none in stock, didn't know when they would have any in stock, and that it was a national shortage at all of the Apple stores. He suggested ordering it online. Not entirely believing him, I checked stores like Best Buy and they all indicated long back orders on 15" Pro's. So, we ended up ordering one online, with a 2-3 week lead time.

    Don't get me started on the free iPod offer. Buy a Macbook directly from Apple, pay upfront for an iPod (including tax), clip UPC's, send them in, and then wait for a check.

Re:National Shortage of 15" Models (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20392333)

Sucks that you eat the sales tax, but you do get the $199 back in about a month.

....and most of the questions (1)

Fantasio (800086) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392197)

...heard about all the other laptops are :

-Can I have XP instead of Vista on this one ?

-Can I install Ubuntu ?

Linux on MacBook pro's (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392207)

Many of my co-workers are now using 30" Apple displays on the MacBook pro's (even though they spend most of their time in Windows through Parallels). I'm a Linux user and not ready to make "the switch." However, those 30" displays are fantastic.

I guess I could try to run Linux on the Mac hardware, but I'm worried so few people probably do that, I would be in relatively uncharted waters and have lots of problems. So what's the scoop? Does Linux on MacBook Pros work, including driving the 30" screen at full resolution? I doubt I could run VMWare on a Linux MacBook, which would be a big problem.

Re:Linux on MacBook pro's (1)

webmaster404 (1148909) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392269)

Newer Macs are Intel x86 based so I think you could. Apple even has software to help you (Bootcamp I think is the name) But once you get your distro installed theres no reason why it wouldn't work. I think Apple BIOSes are funky though and you might not be able to boot from CD right away. Apple PCs seem to be lower spec (In comparison to most modern PCs) so VMware would struggle but it should boot and run.

Re:Linux on MacBook pro's (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20392469)

I guess I could try to run Linux on the Mac hardware, but I'm worried so few people probably do that, I would be in relatively uncharted waters and have lots of problem.
Plenty of people run Linux on Mac hardware. I've booted Kubuntu on my Macbook Pro and everything worked (native display resolution, wireless, etc.). There is an entire section on ubuntuforums for running Ubuntu on Intel Macs (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=211 [ubuntuforums.org] ), which shows that people are running it successfully (and is a great place for help if you decide to give it a try).

I've never tried to run a 30" cinema display from Linux, so I can't comment on that. You could always try booting a LiveCD on one of your coworker's computers and see what happens.

Woo Hoo! We're beating Gateway! (-1, Troll)

Saint Stephen (19450) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392209)

Wow, and all it takes is every half-a-fag in the universe behind you and you're bigger than... Gateway!

Look out!

how does this compare to the desktop market (1)

midgetpoker (1148901) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392263)

I'd be curious to see how these figures compare against the earnings of the companies against which they directly compete and more importantly, the non-portable equivalents of their products. As far as most people are concerned, apple are mainly selling nicely boxed PC laptop components at a knock-down price. I do not care to start a flame war as to the quality (or lack thereof) of said components, however apple appear to have abandoned the the innovation in their previous market and designs and are now (to me) are pandering solely to (and dominating) to the youth market consisting of people with a large degree disposable income who care mainly about appearance. For devices which are going to be maintained and upgraded over a period of time (desktop PCs for example) apple seem to have fallen way behind the curve and thus, I would like to see direct comparisons between (say) apple vs lenovo for laptops or apple vs dell (or fill in the blank for cheap) desktops.

NPD (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392265)

NPD is brick and mortar only excluding some notably large brick and mortar outlets (walmart). Although it encompasses a large fraction of the market it under represent any firm with large online or mail order sales or any firm that sells a lot through Walmart. I do believe Apple is gaining a lot of lap top market share because it's price premium isn't as high in that market and it's got brand power that Lenovo or Gateway don't. I was thinking of recommending we get one for the office because of the amount of print work we do.

I am not a Apple fan, but I recognize it's strengths and weaknesses (note to people in the Steve Jobs RDF, it's not perfect).

APPLE laptops have better parts then there desktop (0)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392307)

APPLE laptops have better parts then there desktops that use laptop cpus and hd's

also the mac book pro has a better video then the new imacs and the mac pro that only comes with a 7300 in the base system and they come with 2gb of ram the mac pro only comes with 1gb.
Also the ram in the mac book costs less.

This is great! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20392309)

I was just wondering where I could plunk down $1500 on a laptop with a 13" LCD.

Christ, Tandy could beat Gateway (1)

Aqua OS X (458522) | more than 7 years ago | (#20392337)

Since when is beating Gateway a badge of honor? This is more a sign that Gateway is falling off and not growing like the rest of the industry.

coming out (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20392377)

In other news, one in six laptop owners are gay.
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