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New GPS Navigator Relies On 'Wisdom of the Crowds' 90

Posted by Zonk from the you're-always-guided-using-renraku-gridguide-system dept.
Hugh Pickens writes "The New York Times is running an article on Dash Express, a new navigation system for automobiles that not only receives GPS location data, but broadcasts information about its travels. Information is passed back to Dash over a cellular data network, where it is shared with other users to let them know if there are slowdowns or traffic jams on the road ahead. The real benefit of the system isn't apparent until enough units are collecting data in a given area - so Dash distributed over 2,000 prototype units to test drivers in 25 large cities."
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New GPS Navigator Relies On 'Wisdom of the Crowds' More

New GPS Navigator Relies On 'Wisdom of the Crowds'

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  • not wisdom of crowds (Score:5, Insightful)

    by stranger_to_himself ( 1132241 ) on Saturday October 20, 2007 @05:44AM (#21053919) Journal
    Come on, this isn't the "Wisdom of Crowds". This is just collecting and organising a lot of information from asked from different people. We should keep the "Wisdom of Crowds" tag for times when knowledge or decisions spontaneously emerge, otherwise it'll become another meaningless buzzword.

    • Re:not wisdom of crowds (Score:4, Funny)

      by cp.tar ( 871488 ) <cp.tar.bz2@gmail.com> on Saturday October 20, 2007 @05:46AM (#21053923) Journal

      That's right.

      This is more like... GPS Torrent?

    • The ones that aren't transcend the buzz with the passage of time. But I hear you, it can be painful.
    • Agreed. And this isn't something new. The two major road data providers, TomTom and Tele Atlas, already have their "crowdsourcing" tools to improve the maps of their GPS Nav systems (and any other other of their customers, such as Google, Microsoft and Yahoo!). See MapShare [tomtom.com] and MapInsight [directionsmag.com], their official tools. Of course, OpenStreetMap [wikipedia.org] is could be considered another pertinent project bridging GPS and crowdsourcing. Oh, and by the way, you have real-time traffic in Google Earth [blogspot.com] too you know. And we discussed p2p networks for road traffic [slashdot.org] some time ago.

      And now, totally off-topic, I would have liked /. to discuss the last Microsoft Virtual Earth release this week [slashdot.org]. It's really major. My story submission about it was rejected. There's even a Google SketchUp competitor in there and many features we won't see anytime soon on Google Maps / Google Earth (and other few worthy competitors).
      • Humm.. that was too early in the morning. Of course, Tele Atlas' competitor is NAVTEQ [gpsreview.net], not Tom Tom. If I'm not wrong, NAVTEQ is bigger. It has been bought by Nokia last month. While Tele Atlas was bought by Tom Tom themselves earlier last summer, so it shades a new light on my parent post. I don't think NAVTEQ have any "crowdsourcing" type of GPS/Road data tool yet.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Mark Hood ( 1630 )
      Agreed. Wisdom of crowds would be if it took everyone's actual routes and used them to advise other people heading the same way.

      For example, I know a shortcut which reduced journey time, and your GPS would take you that way in future because it saw I did it all the time...

      Mark
    • It would be easy to collect data over time and determine not only when traffic jams happen, but the best alternate routes when traffic jams happen. You could also train a neural network to give you better travel times. Perhaps not so much the "wisdom" of the crowds as it is the "experience" of the crowds. But it is valid, and it could be quite useful.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by lpq ( 583377 )
      Does a lynch mob qualify as wisdom of crowds? How about a riot?

      One person's wisdom = another's foolhardiness.

      If it is just "the ghost in the machine", where the parts show intelligence beyond what would be indicated by merely the sum of their parts, why call it 'wisdom', or is this a new way of justifying mob-rule? 1/2 :-)
  • This can be used to track specific individual vehicles. Which can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on which side of PATRIOT you hang. I can see this becoming a compulsory addition to car electronics in the next couple years.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cp.tar ( 871488 )

      So, the question is: will there be an anonymizer GPS network?

      So that they may be able to know the number of cars in each location, but not the owner of each car?

      Though I'd love to see mandatory GPS tracking of vehicles. Automated speed tickets, hit-and-run driver identification etc. etc.

      • I've heard that OnStar installed in cars will be able to shut down cars. For instance, if the police are chasing a vehicle, they can have OnStar disable it, which turns it down to idling speed, forcing (or allowing) it to pull off the road. Of course, they plan to have some common sense restrictions: police cars will need to be near the vehicle before they cut the gas.
      • There is no argument why a mobile phone operator cannot generate this anonymised data and sell it to GPS companies. They know how many cells are in the area and how they move already, so it's more a matter of how to package that data and sell it - this would also be more cost effective than cells having to phone out to report where they are under a separate system - this works anywhere.

        Users could then subscribe to a service like the Tomtom Traffic service which works with a quick data call to uptain local

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by mh1997 ( 1065630 )

          There is no argument why a mobile phone operator cannot generate this anonymised data and sell it to GPS companies. They know how many cells are in the area and how they move already, so it's more a matter of how to package that data and sell it - this would also be more cost effective than cells having to phone out to report where they are under a separate system - this works anywhere.

          You mean like discussed in this slashdot article in August 2006: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/10/233725 [slashdot.org]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tacocat ( 527354 )

      It's far more valuable as a marketing analysis tool than a PATRIOT tool. If the government wants to track a vehicle than use a plane and four cars. Works great.

      But for marketing, this is invaluable. Imagine being able to tie marketing demographics into detailed behavioral information regarding: speed, jack-rabbit, tendencies to seek alternative routes, and sequences of locations visited. Examples might be 20-28 year old single males leave Golds Gym and go to: liqour store, restaurant, home, friends. t

  • "The Wisdom of the Crowds" does not apply here. TWOTC applies to aggregated decisions made my groups of people. This is more akin to a routing algorithm than individual assessment of a condition.

    If you assume that most people don't know anything about a certain condition, those who don't know anything will probably cancel each other out 50-50, but the percentage of people who are knowledgeable about the condition will make more correct assessment. Therefore, when all the choices/assessments are aggregated,
  • I had this idea ages ago. Privacy and Big Brother issues notwithstanding, it makes perfect sense. If the average speed of cars on the M4 Westbound at Chippenham is my tracker with in mind. (Although I don't know anywhere I can get access to a free route calculating API though).

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by caluml ( 551744 )
      Arse. Try again.

      I had this idea ages ago. Privacy and Big Brother issues notwithstanding, it makes perfect sense. If the average speed of cars on the M4 Westbound at Chippenham is < 10 mph, then possibly look at re-routing drivers a different way. It's what I wrote my tracker [calum.org] with in mind. (Although I don't know anywhere I can get access to a free route calculating API though).
    • This is kind of what Trafficmaster does, but by tracking cars. It records the middle four letters of each car number plate - not enough to positively identify the car but enough to have a reasonable expectation that it's the same car you saw a mile up the road.

  • So how long (Score:4, Interesting)

    by RichPowers ( 998637 ) on Saturday October 20, 2007 @06:10AM (#21054019)
    before users get a button to press when they see a speed trap? If enough users report a speed trap at a given intersection or off-ramp, the system could issue an alert to other drivers approaching the area. People would love that.

    • before users get a button to press when they see a speed trap? If enough users report a speed trap at a given intersection or off-ramp, the system could issue an alert to other drivers approaching the area. People would love that.
      TomTom Satnavs already do that, at least in the UK. They also do the journey reporting thing as well as getting traffic delay info from the public broadcasted data service.

      As usual, the USA is playing catch-up.

    • Re:So how long (Score:4, Informative)

      by Amiga Lover ( 708890 ) on Saturday October 20, 2007 @07:18AM (#21054259)
      > How long... before users get a button to press when they see a speed trap?
      > If enough users report a speed trap at a given intersection or off-ramp,
      > the system could issue an alert to other drivers approaching the area.
      > People would love that.

      It'll happen in about minus 10 years, if my experiences in Australia in the late 1990s are anything to go by.
      • It happens in my country without any high tech solutions. All speed traps have a warning about 0.5km before. If there is a patrol with radar gun, drivers which drove past it usually warn drivers from opposed lane with two short bursts of long lights.
      • Wait, I know. Let's make it carry audio, too with channels reserved for emergency communications and casual conversation. We'll put one in every car, and especially in trucks, and invent a specialed language for devoted users.

        If only we could get Charlie Brown to invent it, we could call it a "CB".

    • Re:So how long (Score:5, Interesting)

      by markdavis ( 642305 ) on Saturday October 20, 2007 @08:54AM (#21054645)
      They won't NEED speed traps anymore. Now that you have volunteered to give your position and speed information via GPS to the authorities by broadcasting it all the time, "your ticket is in the mail" from *ANYWHERE*.

      No thanks. There is enough monitoring of citizens' activities and controlling what we are "allowed" to do, already.

      • Re:So how long (Score:4, Insightful)

        by zippthorne ( 748122 ) on Saturday October 20, 2007 @12:59PM (#21056155) Journal
        It's not so bad though. With perfect enforcement, people might actually start complaining about the right things. Like roads whose speed limit is set at "revenue generating" levels or roads which really aren't safe enough for the speeds people tend to drive them and therefore need a redesign.

      • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        They won't NEED speed traps anymore. Now that you have volunteered to give your position and speed information via GPS to the authorities by broadcasting it all the time, "your ticket is in the mail" from *ANYWHERE*.

        If they get rid of speed traps you'll probably just find that someone will find a way of sending false data, or even more likely turning it off. Speed limiters anyone?

        But more importantly if you're not speeding you don't have a problem, no one needs to speed, we just do, and yes I include myself in "we". I ride a medium paced motorbike (upper limits of learner legal in ACT, Australia, which is a fair bit more powerful than most countries/other Australian states allow for learners). I've timed the differenc

      • They won't NEED speed traps anymore. Now that you have volunteered to give your position and speed information via GPS to the authorities by broadcasting it all the time, "your ticket is in the mail" from *ANYWHERE*.

        That's what EZ Pass is for. Remember to stop at the rest area to get your average speed down. I hear from DMV folks they're going to start this here in NH now that most people have signed up.

  • Wisdom of crowds? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by johndiii ( 229824 ) * on Saturday October 20, 2007 @06:20AM (#21054039) Journal
    Here's a counterpoint [amazon.com]. While this is not really a "wisdom of crowds" application (being rather just a mass data aggregation scheme), it's worth noting that crowds are prone to fads and other mistaken behavior. Mass decision-making seems to work best with unconscious decisions, choices that everyone makes but does not think about a whole lot.

    I could see this system working, though, at least reasonably well. If I see a lot of GPS units going to a particular area, and then slowing down and stopping, I might want to avoid that area. Unless, of course, I'm on the way to a football game or something like that. :-)

  • Compare timestamps and update (Score:3, Interesting)

    by aembleton ( 324527 ) <aembleton@gmaiRASPl.com minus berry> on Saturday October 20, 2007 @06:26AM (#21054063) Homepage
    I had an idea similar to this last year, but I wasn't planning on transmitting data through the mobile phone networks as that could get costly. I thought that each unit could automatically connect to any open wifi network and download the traffic information for the whole country, much like this one sounds like it does. But, when units pass each other on the road, then they should compare time stamps and then update each other to the newest copy. At that point they could also update each other on slow downs and where they happen, as well as slow downs taken from other units as they passed. This would avoid the expense of a mobile network and the risk of a centralised collection of data.

    I currently have one of the mentioned Garmin units here in the UK that uses FM bands to pick up traffic information. The biggest problem is only the major routes are updated, and even then are sometimes missing traffic jam information.

    This unit does sound very good though, and I look forward to getting my hands on one.

    • What you described is called "Jousting": using automotive GPS devices to track traffic speed, and exchanging traffic information via WiFi P2P networking with oncoming traffic, who just drove by where you're heading. A GPS device with a WiFi antenna pointed forward in the direction of travel can exchange real time traffic information with oncoming traffic, that just drove past the traffic ahead of you in the opposite direction. Jousting takes advantage of the natural flow of traffic to distribute real time

  • Why dont these companies use mobile phone data to update this information? Eg mobile phone companies can track how many phones are at a certain location. The more mobile phones are at a certain location (even speed could be measured) to more likely there are traffic jams.

    To do this on your own (nav comapny) is just plain inefficient.

  • OLD NEWS (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Computershack ( 1143409 )
    TomTom portable Satnav devices have been doing this already for some time. But as usual, being way ahead of the USA, people can also submit map revisions for things they come across as they're driving such as new roads or changes to one-way systems, the changes which are applied across everyone using the service when they do updates. Read more about Tomtom Map Share [tomtom.com]

    Oh, and in addition to that, data is fed to the device via Traffic Updates System [tomtom.com] so you can avoid delays. Also, there's a Speed Trap Database [tomtom.com]

  • Sounds really secure...not (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Bearhouse ( 1034238 ) on Saturday October 20, 2007 @07:09AM (#21054223)
    FTA:

    "data collected anonymously from Dash units is added to the group database"

    and

    "Dash's outgoing information is sent over a cellular data network, which is also used to receive things like minor software updates and traffic alerts. Large amounts of data, like major map revisions, come through the Dash's built-in Wi-Fi receiver. The unit will automatically spot open Wi-Fi networks and connect."

    Finally,

    "The prospect of a G.P.S. unit continuously reporting a car's speed and location gives some drivers the willies, but Ms. Bender said that the information was sent anonymously -- there was no way to know which car it came from. If the unit is stolen, the company can send a signal to erase its memory, including driving data and the address book, so that it can't be extracted."

    Hopefully your unit will not be stolen while you've parked your car overnight, or even for a hour, so you'll have time to get them to send the kill code before the unit is compromised.

    If this thing connects to Wifi then it must have a unique network ID, ditto for GSM. Sounds like a gift for the DHS guys.
    Now, where is my tinfoil hat?

    • This calls for proper application of cryptography.

      I'm not sure how it would look, but let's play with the idea a bit. What you'd like would be for each transmission to be signed in a particular way:

      • For collecting ordinary traffic data, transmissions need to be authenticated and encrypted (in order to prevent obvious abuses of the system) but remain completely anonymous.
      • In case of theft, there needs to be a way to add information to the system so that a particular signature is no longer anonymous but
  • Most jams are fairly transitory. What this system should do is make the car slow down just enough to prevent the jams in the first place. How many times have you been behind any idiot who hits the brakes but slows down way too much for the conditions, and so makes you brake too much etc etc. If you keep your eyes on the traffic in front of the car in front, you do a much better job of keeping a decent average speed. Of course that also means you can't tailgate at 80+ mph, which seems to be de rigeur these d

  • Let me guess.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Mork29 ( 682855 ) * <keith@yelnick.us@army@mil> on Saturday October 20, 2007 @07:28AM (#21054299) Journal
    Everybody is now going to freak out about the "privacy issues".
    A) The device supposedly transmits the data anonymously
    B) Nobody is forcing you to get it
    C) You probably aren't interesting enough to bother watching

    Now, privacy concerns are valid and good. I don't want a "big brother" state as much as the next guy. However, how much are we going to let "privacy" get in the way of innovation? Think about how valuable this could be if everybody did have it? Think about the time saved, the gas saved, and possibly even the lives saved. I'd love to know if there is deadlock traffic ahead that I can't see, and I'm still cruising along at 60+ mph.

    Now, as far as the privacy goes. I wouldn't even mind if this could be used by law enforcement to catch criminals. What we need is a way to limit when systems like this good be actived. I don't care if the police bust down doors, listen to phone calls, read e-mails, etc... as long as they have a very good reason to suspect the person of wrong doing, and they went through a judge and have the legal authority to use these systems. If there is some good evidence that a person minght be a criminal, I'd love for the police to have every bit of possible information on that person. It makes there job easier and safer, and hopefuly makes the world safer.

    We don't need to worry about the technology. We need to worry about the laws that congress passes, and the things that our govenment does that bypass a good solid legal proccess. There are plenty of gadgets in our lives that can be used against us to limit our privacy. That part is done and over. What we need to be conerned about is the actual legal basis for when the government can access those devices. So, before you post about how big brother is going to watch your car, think abougt writing your congressmen instead. Let them know what you think.
  • OK, so this "new technology" will take where you have driven, and upload it to a datacenter where it is "shared" with other people to "help" with traffic notification? Sounds to me like a wondrous attempt to log our travels. Reminds me of the license plate recording camera system used in England.
  • Having faced more than a few violent riots, I can say that after a while the crowd gets bored with collective wisdom and resorts to mob stupidity.

    This GPS thing should work good though .. cause it's not the same thing.
  • I've often thought that units could be designed to store GPS location information when a person goes "off map" into new roads that the unit doesn't know about. Then when the user syncs their device the information could be uploaded to a server where it is aggregated with other people's info. Once a threshold is reached, the company can convert the raw GPS data into map data, then push out a map update with the next sync.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by maggard ( 5579 )

      'Cept we don't want folks cutting across farmland, industrial sites, or via emergency-services-only ramps.

      The problem is there are plenty of controlled-access routes around, and they're not on maps because they're not public roads. I already have a problem with my GPS trying to get me to use an 'official use only' exit off of a toll highway, I don't need it trying to route me through a secured military base.

      Even trying to use GPS units (or cellphone triangulation, or whatever) to determine route popularit

  • I've seen this Wisdom of Crowds buzzword tossed around a lot recently, as if it were something new... it's not. It's just a new name for something really, really, ancient.

    Are people afraid to acknowledge that some natural phenomena and the wisdom of the ages still apply today. If Madonna releases a remake of "American Pie" it's not a new song, it's simply a new singer performing a good oldie.

    Tribal law, synergy, Robert Metcalfe's (3-Com) z-squared aka value proposition of a network, a swarm, a colony,
  • It seems to me this could be used for vehicle pooling to save money for people who want to share rides, if the feedback mechanism is extended.

    People who are making a long journey on their own in a car, or who make a regular journey, can key in it's start and end co-ordinates and say when they are going and whether it is a one-off or a regular journey. Someone who is looking for a ride can do the same, or just say where he wants to go to right now. Then the system can match the two and alert the willing driv
  • It depends on which GPS device I was using at the time.

  • Tech already exists.. (Score:4, Funny)

    by B5_geek ( 638928 ) on Saturday October 20, 2007 @10:30AM (#21055127)
    Speaking as a truck driver I can tell you that CB-Radios already do this.

    "Hey North-bound, you better get your ass off that road and find a detour, there's a 3 mile parking lot ahead of you."

    "10-4 South-bound, thank-you. There's a Bear with a radar-gun at mile-marker 127."

    Just add more profanity and you get the general idea.
  • This does sound like an interesting idea, but interesting doesn't always equal good. Yes, it might help with traffic avoidance, but it uses the cell network to do so. What happens when some important director of something-or-other decides to use this, and the 'hunters' found out how it works? Makes you wonder if there is any way to have the signal encrypted in any way, so that not just anyone can find a way to tap into it and have a little locator beacon as to where you are.

  • Sounds like.. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by JustNiz ( 692889 )
    Sounds like yet another major invasion of privacy under the guise of something else.
  • A cool addition to the system would be for it to call 911 if the car gets in an accident. Help would then be able to find the troubled vehicle quickly by it's GPS coordinates.

    I'm not sure how this would work technically, but I would imagine that it could tell when the car stops REALLY fast or feels a sudden large shock and call for help.

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