Lenovo Removes Linux Option For Home Buyers 380
billybob2 writes "Lenovo has stopped selling laptops pre-installed with Linux on its web site, only 8 months after starting the trial program. This means that home customers won't be able to buy a Thinkpad without paying the Microsoft tax. Word has it that the decision to pull the plug on Linux came down from the highest levels of the Chinese company's corporate headquarters. For those looking to buy full-sized laptops and desktops with Linux pre-loaded Dell, System76, ZaReason and Everex all still offer such products."
AC comment from TFA (Score:5, Insightful)
I suspect the decision was made because of comparatively small demand.
Not every disappointment in life is the result of a Grand Microsoft Conspiracy. (grin)
Re:AC comment from TFA (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:AC comment from TFA (Score:5, Funny)
Most likely it was a combination of low volume and pressure from Microsoft. If M/S keeps the pressure on and the sales don't make it worthwhile fighting then they drop the line.
Most likely it was an example of Boyle's law in action: the higher the pressure, the lower the volume.
Re: (Score:2)
Especially since, judging from what I've seen, their linux program isn't generating nearly the same level of good will in the open source community that Dell and others are generating.
Re:AC comment from TFA (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:AC comment from TFA (Score:5, Interesting)
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It does not cost them anything to pre-install Linux in the first place, any more than tweaking a copy to run on each model they have, which is not the worlds hardest job. Roll out and copy, that is it. And no need to pay royalties to MS. The decision was probably made as a result of suits taking a meeting with another group of suits that told their "friends" that their product is superior in every way and there is absolutely no reason to even consider Linux. This is the way of recent ISO-votes and it works.
Re:AC comment from TFA (Score:5, Informative)
Not true, if you release an OS with your system you "have" to test it, along with all the drivers for each hardware configuration you offer. At larger PC vendors a lot of time and money is spent on this test phase, and a lot of issues are found. The bar is a lot lower for consumer grade stuff, but the testing does still happen. This is why you can't always find the exact combo of hardware you want, for the exact flavor of OS you want.
In order to deliver the cheapest, fastest, greenest, whateverist, people do tend to deviate from Intel's reference design for a given platform. They deviate from other IC vendor reference designs as well, to, in theory, provide a better end user experience, more integration, etc.
The result is that a stock OSes (linux, windows, or "other") may not necessarily work as well, unless/until patches are sent upstream and accepted by whatever OS community is responsible. I am personally aware of a number of OS bugs in both Linux and Windows, found during this testing, that are corrected with the OS shipped with the product by the mfg, that are not yet part of the mainstream OS release. They will be released in a service pack or hotfix, update, etc. at some point, but OS release schedules rarely correlate with hardware releases. Sometimes they never are in the OS release and are in registry changes etc. YMMV.
It may be that some PC vendors are choosing to absorb these costs because Microsoft has been rubbing everyone the wrong way. Lenovo clearly doesn't wish to be one, except perhaps in markets where there's a different expectation of quality & support or where piracy is acceptable.
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Actually I did not say that it is a automatic process, where manufacturers just install vanilla Ubuntu. I said it is not the worlds hardest job. And if you count in the savings of royalties they otherwise pay to MS, it is is very cheap to maintain Linux.
I am well aware Linux does not behave nicely either, given I have a Thinkpad T61, half of which functionality I had to tweak to work properly.
Still, even in the short run Linux does pay off. Also, people can choose Windows still, nobody forces them to run Li
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That last remark sounds illogical, in markets where piracy is acceptable Linux would not be an obvious choice. It would take more effort to make an illegal version of Linux than to distrubute it legally.
I think it is more likely that Lenovo has chosen to exclusively target markets where piracy is the preferred mode of software distribution.
Re:AC comment from TFA (Score:5, Informative)
That's not really true. While the copy of Linux itself does not necessarily cost them anything, the fact that it is another option for the customer DOES make it cost more. General rule of thumb is that the more stock keeping units (SKU), the more it will cost you as a company. Basically, if you only sold one model of widgets, in one color with no options at all, it is cheaper than selling one model of widget that comes in either red or blue. It's not about the paint - the red and blue paint cost the same. It's the fact that your production line now has to support two variations. You now have two different packages for the product and on your web site, you now have to add in the capability for the customer to choose their color, and then you have to make sure that they get the right one. Going back to Lenovo, having a second operating system option means a lot of extra investment in their supply chain. Granted, if there is significant customer demand, the extra investment in the supply chain may be worth it. However, if the demand is not there, then the company shouldn't be selling that extra SKU.
On a non-business note, though, I'm sad to hear that they will no longer be selling pre-installed Linux. In fact, I didn't even know they had been selling pre-installed Linux until now. I like that the option is there. At the very least, I don't pay the Microsoft tax when I won't be installing any Microsoft software and hardware compatibility and driver support becomes more robust. I'm glad Dell is hanging in there. I won't comment on whether this is a conspiracy or not. I'm a dedicated Linux user and I love to bash Microsoft, but even I can admit that the demand just may not be there. It could have even been a factor of them failing at getting the message out to those who would be interested (I at least didn't get the memo). Although I will never completely rule out the possibility of an MS conspiracy, we can't exactly jump to that conclusion here.
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Picture this: some company, a laptop manufacturer, hears about Linux and decides that it wants to sell units with pre-installed Linux. It makes some changes to the process and cranks out(for example) 2000 units. Only 22 units sell.
The company could do a few things: they could allow the other 1078 to collect dust(lost time == lost $$$) while hoping demand picks up, or they could install windows(less lost time == less lost $$$) on 'em and send 'em out the door. Y
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Picture this: some company, a laptop manufacturer, hears about Linux and decides that it wants to sell units with pre-installed Linux. It makes some changes to the process and cranks out(for example) 2000 units. Only 22 units sell.
The company could do a few things: they could allow the other 1078 to collect dust
Personally, I would be looking to find who stole the other 900 units. Probably find them listed on ebay.
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I would gladly pay the same price for a Linux laptop as I would for one with a copy of (insert Win flavor) on it.
OEM's: Don't charge *more* for Linux, charge the _same_ as what you would for a system with the MS tax, and then put the difference in your pocket.
Use the extra profit as an incentive to offer and support Linux, and keep it in the line...
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I'm guessing it was just causing more problems than it was making sales.
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"Pass the cost on to the consumers anyway" means they've got a higher priced product in an incredibly competitive market. If the eepc pricing is indicative, there's a non-trivial mark-up for including Windows. If you can sell a linux box for less, then you can undercut the competition using Windows, even on the same exact hardware with the same exact margins.
Comment from me (Score:4, Informative)
because of comparatively small demand.
Maybe the "demand" was small because no one could find it on their f-ing web site.
I wanted a new laptop w/ Linux last month, and I looked at virtually every Thinkpad on their web site, and I could select Linux on almost none of them.
I can almost say the same thing about Dell. Only a small fraction of their laptops can I find Linux available.
Most of these companies just are paying lip service to Linux.
Maybe the word actually came from consumers? (Score:5, Interesting)
And people just weren't buying them?
Re:Maybe the word actually came from consumers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah All kinds of possibilities can lead to this.
I think as *nix advocates (at least some of us), we need to realize that it's not all about being altruistic to these guys. It's about money, and if it's doesn't make money then why would they do it? But why speculate on motivations. It's just a fact and we can accept it, make Linux better where we can, and move forward.
Re:Maybe the word actually came from consumers? (Score:5, Interesting)
Agreed..
Linux isn't the answer to everything. Typical linux users don't pay the premium lenovo/IBM pricing anyway for the most part. They would go HP/Dell and put their own OS on since the "MS tax" has little to do with the price differences of Lenovo and other options.
BTW, when will Apple get rid of the Apple Tax? :)
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Maybe when Microsoft starts selling PCs, so that your comparison is really an apples-to-Apples one? ;)
Xbox (Score:2)
Maybe when Microsoft starts selling PCs
That was 2001, when Microsoft introduced Xbox, a PC marketed as a game console.
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a PC with an inferior interface marketed as a game console
Fixed that for you ;)
Microsoft is now a PC OEM (Score:3, Informative)
In partnership with a hardware company in India called Zenith [theregister.co.uk], Microsoft is a PC OEM for a system called the IQpc. That was really not a smart move on Microsoft's part.
All the next billion users are not belong to Microsoft. Not theirs. The backlash from this decision is just now reaching the upper levels of Microsoft management as their platform is deprecated by long term partners who understand that if Microsoft gets share in this market, they're dead. This is the same reason you don't have a Microsof
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IBM isn't Lenovo. It's as simple as that.
They don't deserve whatever consideration you would give a PC builder because it's a part of Big Blue.
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we need to realize that it's not all about being altruistic to these guys. It's about money, and if it's doesn't make money then why would they do it?
I wish more companies would remember that altruism can make them money in the long run. If Dell, for example, can make it so that Linux makes serious in roads, then the next generation of computer shoppers will always remember Dell as the maverick that spearheaded the Linux desktop movement that the consumer's reaping the benefits of. Idealism can and does lead to profit.
What about driver support etcetera? (Score:5, Insightful)
The Microsoft tax isn't that big a deal, at least not in the Thinkpad price range. Were their Linux-based laptops any cheaper? I know some other companies that offer Linux don't offer any discount for it.
A bigger concern is whether they're providing driver support for Linux installation or not.
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If it was possible to burn the money in a fire instead of giving it to Microsoft, then format the laptop and put Linux on it, then no, it wouldn't be a big deal. But that's not the case here. Microsoft is actually getting stronger off that tax, and I think we'll all agree, that is a big deal...
Re:What about driver support etcetera? (Score:4, Insightful)
So let me get this straight. There was no MS tax on these, NO one was apparently buying them, so they're dropping the line and we still have to rattle on and on about a MS tax?
If i buy an apple, how do i get rid of the OSX/Apple tax?
If I buy a ford, how do i put a Mazda engine it it from the getgo and not pay the Ford tax?
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"If I buy a ford, how do i put a Mazda engine it it from the getgo and not pay the Ford tax?"
Ford and Mazda use mostly use the same motors. Ford owns a bit part of Mazda.
And it really isn't the same thing. X86 has always run many different Operating System. IBM didn't bundle PC-DOS with the PC you had a choice of PC-DOS, CP/M-86 and I think at one point Xenix. PC-DOS is the cheapest so that is what most people bought. So buying a PC is not like buying a car without a motor.
So you analogy was flawed on many
Re:What about driver support etcetera? (Score:5, Insightful)
If i buy an apple, how do i get rid of the OSX/Apple tax? If I buy a ford, how do i put a Mazda engine it it from the getgo and not pay the Ford tax?
Apple makes the computers. Ford makes the cars. So there really isn't a way to not pay them in some way (unless you stole their products...but that's beside the point)
Microsoft, on the other hand, does not manufacture the computers. So if I want to buy a computer I shouldn't have to pay them as well if I don't want their product to come with it.
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If i buy an apple, how do i get rid of the OSX/Apple tax?
That's a bit of a broken comparison, since Microsoft doesn't produce full computer hardware, as was noted by another poster.
If I buy a ford, how do i put a Mazda engine it it from the getgo and not pay the Ford tax?
See, this is the crap that is making it difficult for people to see their way around Microsoft. An engine is a piece of *hardware*, much as a CPU is a piece of hardware. An operating system is not a CPU; if you're going to use a car analogy (since this is slashdot, after all), try to use one that makes sense. If you equate the OS to the engine which a car comes with (which is more ofte
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True that an OS is to a computer akin of what an engine is to a car, but that is not a good comparison for this case. What would be a good comparison is say if when you bought any car it came only with a Bose sound system. For many, a Bose system will sound "awesome" or good enough. But many others would rather have a system with a better range, or better MP3 support, or at a much lower cost. They see the true pro
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The Microsoft tax isn't that big a deal, at least not in the Thinkpad price range.
If it was possible to burn the money in a fire instead of giving it to Microsoft, then format the laptop and put Linux on it, then no, it wouldn't be a big deal. But that's not the case here. Microsoft is actually getting stronger off that tax, and I think we'll all agree, that is a big deal...
I know a few really smart, really nice people who work at Microsoft. I don't have a problem with MS making money. I'd much rather have the money go to MS and then get filtered back into the US economy and partially eventually back into my pocket than burned or sent to China where the money doesn't come back this way.
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In my view it's more of a "Microsoft Rebate" with all the crapware that gets installed alongside the default install. Either way, it's still included in Microsoft's numbers as a 'sale', which helps their sales figures and shares.
Maybe they shouldn't have used Suse (Score:2, Insightful)
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Easier to pitch it and say "eh, we have windows. Enjoy."
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Re:Maybe they shouldn't have used Suse (Score:5, Insightful)
Precisely. I bought one of the Lenovo Suse lappys, but never even booted it into Suse. I had an Ubuntu disc sitting on my counter before the UPS guy showed up.
I bought the Suse one for two reasons- known linux-supported hardware, and not paying MS.
The laptop, by the way, is fantastic. Durable, high-performance, and with a docking station, replaced both my desktops.
Communist Plot Against Linux? (Score:2, Funny)
China is a Communist country. The "highest levels" of any corporate HQ is the Communist Party. Is China's Communist government attacking Linux?
Maybe because Linux really practices "from each as per their ability, to each as per their needs", and leads the world in sharing property without respect to class. And is not only successful, but makes some people gloriously rich. Maybe China is j
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Do you think your tin foil hat would protect your head from the clue bat?
China's economy hasn't been centrally planned for a long time.
As for linux, FOSS is the product of self organising peer production and it's absurd to compare it to any form of government.
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In name, sure, but its more of a corporatist totalitarian state than a Communist one in substance.
Well, there are certain state-owned (often, IIRC, through the People's Liberation Army) industries in China for which that is true, but as a general rule its really not.
Re:Communist Plot Against Linux? (Score:4, Interesting)
These are all fundamental ideals of communism [wikipedia.org] - that all property is communally owned, that all people are equal regardless of class, and that the workers (common people) should be in charge of governing themselves.
The way the Chinese run their country is very far from the ideals of communism, in fact no country that I know has ever had a successful communist government. There has been plenty of dictatorships masquerading as communist though.
Re:Communist Plot Against Linux? (Score:4, Insightful)
Morally speaking, while most people would argue that there's nothing wrong with charging money for software, almost everyone will agree that the community that's sprung up around open source is very right. It's heart warming, really.
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1) F/OSS supporters don't (generally) claim that all property should be communally owned. The concept of ownership -- communal or otherwise -- doesn't even apply to things which lack scarcity, such as code. To the extent that some people claim it does apply ("IP") it isn't "owned" by the community, but rather by the individual contributors. Cooporation between individual property owners for mutual benefit is a tenet of capitalism, not communism.
2) The idea that all individuals have equal rights under the la
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Linuz also has a property that is never true in the physical world, it's in infinite supply. That means it must also be maintenance-free, since you could always get a "new" one and so noone has to be forced to work just to maintain the status quo. It also takes care of all control issues, while in the real world many resources are naturally limited (say beluga caviar), others can be made limited (limit production, hoarding) and the ones in control of that scarce resource now has power. That can be bargained
I have one (Score:5, Interesting)
I bought a T61 several months ago from them with Suse pre-installed (I then installed the latest version of OpenSuse instead as the pre-installed one was an older, stable and supported version.)
I like it a lot and was planning on doing the same for any future laptop purchases. It's a shame because these are great machines and perfect for Linux (and the kind of person that normally runs Linux.)
However, I ran through the various options before purchasing and it was hard to tell if I was really saving money this way. For the Linux systems the choice of hardware options was more limited than with Windows (which does make sense) and I don't think I was able to set up equal systems which to compare prices with. In the end I think I paid the same or possibly even more for this system than if I had got one with Windows with the intention of not using it.
I think, then, their trial of selling Linux machines failed because they failed to make it a compelling option to the buyer, either financially or otherwise (limited options.)
I still feel good about myself for not giving any money to Microsoft.
More reasons for preloading (Score:5, Interesting)
> I think, then, their trial of selling Linux machines failed because they failed to make
> it a compelling option to the buyer, either financially or otherwise (limited options.)
We also bought a SUSE loaded Thinkpad recently. Normally we do RedHat based distros but since this one did come with a supported load left it alone. Yes SUSE is different but the user adapted pretty quick.
The point of preload is not just to avoid giving Microsoft money, I'm smart enough to realize Lenovo almost certainly gave Microsoft their per unit tax (no amount of court orders will ever end that practice) but we got three other important things:
1. PRELOAD. Take it out, plug it in and go. Don't underestimate the value of that.
2. NO SUPRISES. If they are preloading Linux on it they won't suddenly switch vendors on wireless chipsets, etc. and hose you. Even if you decide you don't like the flavor of the month a vendor ships the odds are good you can load any other recent distro.
3. SUPPORT. If a vendor preloads Linux you can call them up and get warranty support without having to worry about reloading Windows before shipping it off or ensuring the drive is yanked out.
In the past we bought Thinkpads because they were the best hardware and nobody offered Linux as a supported option so their lack of that didn't hurt them. That isn't true anymore so future purchases won't go to them.
Shouldn't be suprised (Score:2)
HP Small Business still has FreeDos Laptops (Score:3, Insightful)
http://www.hp.com/sbso/busproducts_notebooks.html [hp.com]
Many of those laptops that can be configured have "FreeDos" as an option for the OS.
Sure, that means it doesn't come with an installed Linux distro, but you can get a customized laptop without the MS tax.
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Many of those laptops that can be configured have "FreeDos" as an option for the OS.
The same is true of Dell, but in many cases you won't find that option on the website -- you need to ask your friendly Dell representative.
I am the proud owner of a Dell-branded FreeDOS CD.
No Linux option? Probably has winhardware. (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure, that means it doesn't come with an installed Linux distro, but you can get a customized laptop without the MS tax.
If a laptop comes without an installed Linux distro, it also comes without the manufacturer's assurance that there exists a Linux driver for all hardware in the laptop.
DVD Playback? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:DVD Playback? (Score:5, Informative)
They install LinDVD.
The market speaks? (Score:2)
Rather than focusing on dark and sinister plots perhaps speculation should center on lack of customer demand and/or too many calls for customer support. If the product was selling well and at a profit its not likely that Lenovo (or anyone else) would abandon the it.
Maybe Vista is better? (Score:2, Troll)
I'm having a really bad Linux day, because I installed KDE 4.1 on my Hardy Heron Ubuntu box, and found that, after the dust settled, I was booting with an extra kernel, my graphics were destroyed and my networking was f--- up. About the only thing that works right, actually, is in fact Vista running in a VirtualBox OSE environment, and I'm so bitter about KDE trashing my machine that I'm about ready to say screw Linux and just format the whole dang thing to Vista, if only I can find the signed drivers..
Re:Maybe Vista is better? (Score:5, Informative)
From the KDE 4.1 announcement page:
"While KDE 4.1 aims at being the first release suitable for early adopting users..."
If you want to be an early adopter, you need to live with the consequences. I've run KDE for years and would never consider moving to KDE 4+ for a least another year or two.
Also KDE != Linux.
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"and I'm so bitter about KDE trashing my machine that I'm about ready to say screw Linux and just format the whole dang thing to Vista, if only I can find the signed drivers."
A nice thing about Linux is that when something barfs, you can boot with your live CD, rescue your home directory, reinstall and update easily. (An external DVD drive allows booting from the main CD/DVD drive and burning to the external if you don't have another machine to copy to.)
A "nuke and pave" is MUCH faster than with Windows.
No
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A nice thing about Linux is that when something barfs, you can boot with your live CD, rescue your home directory, reinstall and update easily. (An external DVD drive allows booting from the main CD/DVD drive and burning to the external if you don't have another machine to copy to.)
Can I reinstall over myself? If I could just nuke and pave I would be immensely happier, for sure.
No matter what OS you use, it is time well spent learning to quick-turn a hosed system back to service.
That's definitely fair enou
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"and I'm so bitter about KDE trashing my machine that I'm about ready to say screw Linux and just format the whole dang thing to Vista, if only I can find the signed drivers."
A nice thing about Linux is that when something barfs, you can boot with your live CD, rescue your home directory, reinstall and update easily. (An external DVD drive allows booting from the main CD/DVD drive and burning to the external if you don't have another machine to copy to.)
A "nuke and pave" is MUCH faster than with Windows.
No matter what OS you use, it is time well spent learning to quick-turn a hosed system back to service.
1. Set up your system of any operating system in a nice configuration with all the core software and features you want installed and tweaked to taste.
2. Use a disk imager to back up the drive to an external hd or a NAS or a usb key.
3. When things go wrong, copy your documents if they're on the boot drive (and next time keep them on a separate drive) and restore from your image.
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I want KDE 4, but I am not upgrading until it is the default for my distro because it is not worth the hassle that results if something goes wrong.
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It'd help to not use an unstable version of KDE, then complain about it being... unstable.
All honesty though, I made the switch to Gnome when I was thoroughly disappointed with the direction KDE4 is going. Apparently, Gnome got a lot better since I used it last, because I switched the rest of my systems that night.
How is the Microsoft Tax a "tax"? (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't get why Slashdotters assume that it would be cheaper for computer producers and for consumers to install Linux instead of Windows. We also see this in complaints about the Inspiron 900 costing the same with Linux as without it, and there were some huge posts about that. Here's the deal: software development and support costs too. When a manufacturer puts Linux on their devices, they have to first test it, make sure that it works, and iron out the bugs in the parts that won't work. This takes expensi
Thinkpad T61 (Score:2, Informative)
3rd party (Score:3, Interesting)
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Because it was a very good product that supports the efforts of the majority of people here. And apparently it wasn't marketable enough.
Linux 'support' from computer vendors (Score:2)
I don't remember what Lenovo was offering, but I know with Dell, it's pretty pathetic. You get a *small* number of their machines available, plus a small number of available options - even if 'Linux compatability' does not apply - fewer, if not far fewer, options available with Linux Dell machines.
Then there's the matter of even *finding* the damned things on Dell's website. They've separated it into it's own dell.com/ubuntu area, and you can't (easily) get into it from within the main dell.com purchasing p
Hiding the price (Score:3, Insightful)
> Is it really that hard for them to make Ubuntu an option in the OS choice box?
Yes it is. Because above all else, end users MUST NEVER become aware of the amount Windows adds to the sticker price. That is what is behind all of these games. Windows must be an invisible component lest users begin questioning why they must buy Windows and keep on rebuying it with each and every hardware purchase. The entire monopoly depends upon this, thus Microsoft would mercilessly punish any OEM who broke that rule.
This isn't as bad as it used to be (Score:2, Interesting)
Back in the day, most Linux users recall a time when the only hardware that really worked well with Linux was OLD and otherwise useless hardware. Those days are long-since gone and no amount of Microsoft pressure could prevent people from developing drivers and support for Linux or otherwise releasing the specs so that other people could write support code. Now just about everything is supported under Linux and quite a few things won't fly under Vista... and it won't be long before Vista is all that is [e
Possible reasons (Score:5, Interesting)
Having just purchased a T61 (as it was being discontinued), I suspect they have good reasons for not offering Linux right now.
The new T400/T500 use Intel's newest wireless chipset (Wifi 5100), which wasn't supported under Linux at the time of launch (early August). Intel announced support on August 14th, and as far as I know, it's not supported in any stable release of any major distribution. This will change in the coming months, of course, but it makes sense that there's no Linux option now.
The video card is in a similar situation. The laptops with discrete graphics also have integrated graphics which are switchable via driver (for power savings). As far as I know, this switching isn't implemented at all in X and I don't know if you can disable one or the other card. If you order a version with only integrated graphics, I believe it's supported only by the latest version of the intel driver (which isn't yet packaged for many distributions).
Even though I use my T61 for Linux, I still bought a Vista Home version for three reasons: 1.) Every so often I like to have Windows for something, 2.) The hardware options for the Linux version were crippled - slower processor line, etc. and 3.) OpenSuse isn't my distro of choice anyway. You'd have to buy the dock separately (no big deal), because the support for it under Linux isn't official (and it took some time to get things to work reasonably well for me).
Microsoft Tax? (Score:2)
I agree that it would be nice to have a Linux option for the laptop. But at the same time, is this "Microsoft tax" really an issue? I thought that the amount you are actually paying for your Windows license on a store-bought computer is only about $10, since Microsoft basically is giving them away for free. Unless we are literally bitching about the 10 bucks.
News at Eleven. (Score:2)
.
News at Eleven: Lenovo pulls the plug on a product that isn't selling well in the North American market.
Of the 99 laptop PCs currently available from Walmart.com only six run Linux and all six are $300 netbooks
- and only one or two of these are to be found "in selected st
Available from laclinux.com (Score:2, Informative)
They are available from http://laclinux.com./ [laclinux.com.] They have a decent selection, if not all.
Too many distros for preloads (Score:3, Insightful)
For the typical consumer how has no idea what Linux is, there is little point in a preloaded Linux system. Windows is fine for them, and has more consumer-type software.
That leaves as the market for these things the people that actually want Linux. But people who know enough about Linux to actually want it probably want a specific distribution. If the preloaded distribution is that one, great!
But if the one they want is not the preloaded one, then they are going to end up doing their own install anyway. In that case, the only advantage they really get buying one of the preloaded Linux systems is that they know the hardware works with Linux (maybe--some companies that do preloads simply don't support all of their own hardware under Linux).
But there is also a disadvantage. Windows often comes bundled with third party software, and there also often ads from third parties included in the packaging. The companies that make the bundled software, or that the ads are for, pay the computer companies to be included. The computer company often makes enough money that way to more than pay for the Windows license. Because of this, it is often cheaper for them to sell a given model with Windows than to sell it without Windows.
If this is the case, the Linux fan who is going to install his own distro over the preloaded one is better off, financially, buying the Windows computer and wiping it.
Bottom line: the market for whom Linux preloads makes sense is only a small subset of the people that want to run Linux on their new computer. Hence, it is no surprise that manufacturers are not finding it worthwhile.
Well fuck them! (Score:3, Funny)
Who are they to say I can't use Linux just because I decided to buy a home?!
(Gotta love the English language)
Re:Well up-theirs (Score:4, Interesting)
i bought my laptop for dual-booting, WinXP MCE and Linux. After 4 months of getting tired of it telling me "Use *our* antivirus of choice!" in windows I just gave up and installed linux. Truth be told, I kept my MCE key around, because that gives me the legal right to use it in a VM should the need arise. (But it hasn't, thanks, in part, to everything moving to the web)
Re: (Score:2)
Correction - Linux is now on the whole drive, rather than the 20GB partition.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
After 4 months of getting tired of it telling me "Use *our* antivirus of choice!" in windows I just gave up and installed linux.
Let me be sure I understand this clearly to confirm you aren't trolling.... you were annoyed by Windows Security Center telling you to install Anti-Virus software? You were not able to simply turn this off? Did you believe you MUST have Anti-Virus software to use the computer rather than rely on common sense practices? Something doesn't quite add up here.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Actually you can turn that off. That lovely little nag feature is a part of "Security Center". It's a service that you can disable. It's one of the first things I do on XP after install.
Are you sure about licensing? (Score:2)
My understanding is that your OEM license is not applicable to VM installations. Is that not the case?
I understand that it's stupid, and that the license _should_ allow it, but if you're violating the license anyway you may as well just grab a copy online.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You probably have a better defense having the OEM licence than none at all, especially if you were running a single copy in a VM on the machine it was tied to.
The clause was likely intended to prevent someone from running a copy of windows in a VM on some super-powered server or something.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
I bought one.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't feed the trolls please. It wastes everyone's time involved, and only makes them more likely to do it.
Trolls hate being ignored.
Re:Well up-theirs (Score:5, Funny)
if it doesnt run linux, it doesnt exist.
Dude. You just made my car disappear.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Well up-theirs (Score:5, Funny)
Fortunately, my toaster is safe.
Re: (Score:2)
but still sell you preinstalled linux if buying in asia.
Pffft, if your buying in Asia they just "sell" you a pirated copy of XP ;)
Re: (Score:2)
Really? The last 3 Ubuntu releases for me worked just find when I plugged my camera into the usb port.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Lenovo shipped Novell's SLED 10 (SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10), but not Ubuntu. Maybe Lenovo selected the wrong distro?
So, does SLED 10 play mp3's and DVD's out of the box?
Don't get me wrong I am a Linux fanboi - it's the only thing I run at home and mostly at work. But having to find and install all the various "non-free" apps from possibly incompatible repos (yum) is a PITA. Probably even more so for a non-technical user.
Re: (Score:2)
If it doesn't there's nothing to stop Lenovo from adding those codes before shipping.
Re:It's clear why (Score:4, Informative)
To be fair, the F/OSS for playing MP3s and DVDs is very good. It just isn't legal in the US.
Re: (Score:2)
It's expensive to add a new OS to the product line, because there's a whole team collecting salary to support the program. They also need to hire support staff to support it, provide a help web site, downloads, print new guides, change their phone help system... etc. And as anybody in I.T. knows, home users are more difficult to service than corporate users.
Maybe if they'd gone with Ubuntu it would have worked, since Del