Ubuntu 9.04 On Kindle 2 194
JO_DIE_THE_STAR_F*** writes "Jesse Vincent managed to get Ubuntu 9.04 Jaunty Jackalope running on the Kindle 2. The new functionality was presented in a talk at OSCON 2009."
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Ubuntu 9.04 On Kindle 2
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I tell them to turn to the study of mathematics, for it is only there that they might escape the lusts of the flesh. -- Thomas Mann, "The Magic Mountain"
data connection? (Score:5, Interesting)
I can't help but wonder - is the kindle's data connection still available?
And if so, on what end is the code that limits the kindle to accessing wikipedia and amazon?
Re:data connection? (Score:4, Informative)
I can't help but wonder - is the kindle's data connection still available?
And if so, on what end is the code that limits the kindle to accessing wikipedia and amazon?
It should be; the data connection (sprint) doesn't use an account-name system. It's based on hardware. The hardware hasn't changed, so one can assume connectivity will work.
Re:data connection? (Score:5, Interesting)
Someone on the project page asked the guy who did this if the data connection worked.
His reply was rather cryptic: "YES BUT DON'T DO THAT".
If the person who managed it is recommending against it, the very same hoopy frood with the smarts who managed to go to all the trouble to hack Ubuntu onto the Kindle, then I gotta go with "it either doesn't work well enough to bother, or there's a really good reason why you shouldn't use it if it does".
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His reply was rather cryptic: "YES BUT DON'T DO THAT".
The reason he typed in all caps was because he was running from Amazon's black helicopters.
Re:data connection? (Score:4, Funny)
I was wondering about their patent on "One Click Kidnapping".
Warner Brothers might have prior art... (Score:2)
... that not only did something similar, it one-up'd one-click with voice recognition. I don't know if you've watched Freakazoid! [wikipedia.org], but there's a guy on that show named Candleja
Kidnap what, though? (Score:2)
So if you use a Kindle to surf to Amazon.com and then click on something, what exactly gets kidnapped... the Kindle, you, or Amazon?
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Good question. Let me give it a tr...
Re:data connection? (Score:5, Interesting)
Enforcing network security in the client wouldn't be a terribly good plan; but a carrier's attempt to do so could make a project like that of TFA much harder in the future.
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Granted, if the volume of traffic for a kindle goes way up beyond what Amazon and Sprint negotiated, there would be flags raised.
I'm sure there are some data usage catch-all's buried in the license agreement.
Re:data connection? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Then the correct answer is "NO", at least to the public. :)
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Amazon has locked people out of their store (and the Kindle accounts) before for misbehavior. Best-case scenario, if you go wild, is you'll find yourself without access to the online bookstore and/or your Amazon account. Worst-case scenario, probably, is havin
Re:data connection? (Score:4, Informative)
Someone on the project page asked the guy who did this if the data connection worked. His reply was rather cryptic: "YES BUT DON'T DO THAT". If the person who managed it is recommending against it, the very same hoopy frood with the smarts who managed to go to all the trouble to hack Ubuntu onto the Kindle, then I gotta go with "it either doesn't work well enough to bother, or there's a really good reason why you shouldn't use it if it does".
Amazon only guarantees that the Kindle can be used to access a few websites (Wikipedia, Amazon, maybe one or two more), but they currently allow you to access all of the internet for free over Sprint's cellular network. Amazon pays for it.
If people were to start tethering their Kindles and using them as a means of getting free internet anywhere, it would become too expensive for Amazon to continue. This is probably why the author said not to use the data connection; he doesn't want Amazon to discontinue the free internet service.
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Wait, really? You mean to say that if I have the right hardware, I could conceivably get free wireless access (at least to Wikipedia) anywhere -- and there's no system of authentication to shut it down without shutting down every existing Kindle?
That seems like huge news.
If true, I'm surprised there aren't black market chips that do this.
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I assume that Amazon is getting a much better deal, per modem in use, than most other users are because of bulk and because the
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You mean to say that if I have the right hardware, I could conceivably get free wireless access (at least to Wikipedia) anywhere -- and there's no system of authentication to shut it down without shutting down every existing Kindle?
Actually, Amazon has built pretty good authentication into the system. The system stores:
:)
1) Your Amazon account information
2) Your credit card number
3) Your location (via the GPS)
So if you do decide to piss Amazon off, like someone else implied above, you might as well just sit down, have a cup of coffee, and wait for the black Amazon helicopters to land on your lawn.
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So if you do decide to piss Amazon off, like someone else implied above, you might as well just sit down, have a cup of coffee, and wait for the black Amazon helicopters to land on your lawn. :)
Oh, boy, finally! A real-world use for yelling "Get off my lawn!"
Re:data connection? (Score:5, Informative)
The Kindle isn't limited to accessing Wikipedia and Amazon even with the default OS-- there's a web browser under the "experimental" features in the default menu. Amazon doesn't play it up much partly because it's not very good [techcrunch.com], and partly because presumably they'd lose money if people bought Kindles just for web browsing.
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Re:data connection? (Score:4, Interesting)
Amazon presumably pays Sprint for the service connection too. My guess is Amazon pays per byte, because they charge to wirelessly transmit books to the kindle (unless you buy the book from Amazon, in which case that's baked into the price).
If my guess is true, using it purely as a browser could cost Amazon a decent amount. Fortunately for them, the browser is terrible and the screen is too slow to browse quickly.
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They don't lose money on the hardware, but they're selling you the hardware and a few years of unlimited 3G connectivity for that $299.
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unlimited (\-Ëli-mÉ(TM)-tÉ(TM)d\, adjective) - for data transfer, any amount less than approximately 500 GB per month.
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Does the Kindle have an EULA or something that defines what "unlimited" means?
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And if so, on what end is the code that limits the kindle to accessing wikipedia and amazon?
In your head? Or is that just a Kindle 2 limitation? 'Cause the DX can visit any site its primitive browser is capable of displaying. I've got a slashdot bookmark on my DX.
Or, did you mean the code that prevents you from tethering it?
Why? Because it is there? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Why? Because it is there? (Score:4, Informative)
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help me out ... (Score:5, Funny)
is there a new rating system i don't know about? what are the other options besides "very high geek-hacker level"?
Re:help me out ... (Score:5, Funny)
Here is the scale:
1) Stoned geek-hacker
2) very high geek-hacker
3) high geek-hacker
4) one-puff geek-hacker
5) sober geek-hacker
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The post office delivers a letter "cheaper than the other carriers" because it has a monopoly to deliver letters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Service [wikipedia.org]
If you're delivering something via FedEx for example, I guess it's legally no longer a letter.
Interesting test of Amazon's Legal Dept. (Score:4, Interesting)
I wonder what the legal team will do? This is a derivative work and the guy did reverse engineer how things worked (a little) to get Linux on it.
Re:Interesting test of Amazon's Legal Dept. (Score:5, Interesting)
Did Amazon put a lease on the Kindle? No.
It's yours. The debt was paid and you own the device. You can bash it in with a hammer if you wanted. There's nothing stopping you from doing anything to the hardware, including damaging it. There's no law against hacking hardware, and you can already put your own ebooks on it so it's a moot point that it promotes piracy like you can argue for consoles. There are laws on the effects and results it can cause, mostly to do with the FCC and radio frequencies, and other illegal things you can do with any normal computer. The EULA has no sticking power.
Now, the idea that the 3G internet connection still works is interesting. There's no login credentials. So technically you DO have unlimited access to their network, until they decide to ban your chip ID. Then someone could make a class-action lawsuit and say they gave me unlimited access, you can't ban me.
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The Kindle runs Linux already. All he did was disable a few protections, which you would know if you had watched the video. That TOS has absolutely zero applicability, since they have already released the modifications they made to the Linux kernel (as required by the GPL.)
In fact, given the fact that the Kindle is Linux, the software provisions of their TOS are patently absurd.
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Erm, those terms of use are clearly in violation of the GPL.
Underwhelmed (Score:2, Funny)
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A couple notes... (Score:5, Informative)
What I did was to get a Jaunty _chroot_ running on the Kindle 2. The interesting bits were mostly around making X work and beating the 5-pad into submission.
Re:A couple notes... (Score:5, Funny)
Exhibit A that your Slashdot UID is inversely proportional to your ability to do cool shit.
Semantic Web (Score:3, Informative)
Watch the video until the end, there's a brilliantly funny presentation about the semantic web that you wont want to miss.
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No, the REAL question is... why?
A Netbook is cheaper, faster, and designed to run it. Why pay Amazon for an overpriced specialty item then make it do something it was never intended to do? I can't imagine the thing can still access the 3G network for free (the author replied "YES BUT DON'T DO THAT" to someone who asked)...
And, yes, I know... "because we can". And I congratulate the person who managed this. It's an impressive technical achievement.
Still doesn't make it something I see a lot of people wan
Re:First (Score:5, Insightful)
Just the answer you gave is answer enough.
Keep it in context. This was a guy at an open source conference, showing off a new example of something that Linux people take pride in. If he were trying to make a business of selling Ubuntu Kindles then he might need to concern himself with the practicality of it.
Re:First (Score:4, Interesting)
Like I said, I'm not an expert, but being able to install a new OS on the Kindle does open up some possibilities, I think.
Re:First (Score:5, Insightful)
Smart dude, significant accomplishment, and not to denigrate his success but I'd love to see him using all that brainpower on something else.
However, it's an excellent demonstration of a non-paper resume. And there are still people out there making new hardware on small platforms. Wouldn't you want someone available who knew a bit about software if you were building something you might want to sell?
Geez Louise! It's hard enough keeping good people interested in this business without trivialising their efforts to show off their stuff. Think before you crap on people, please.
More Books (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't know why you'd particularly want to run X11 on a kindle, or certain apps. But there's definitely a space here for stuff like other eBook formats, word-processing (eInk looks great when you're outside), and improving on the general Kindle user experience. For example - the DX has PDF reading, but there's no real organization of PDFs other than by filename. What if I want to organize all my work PDFs (journal articles and whatnot) by journal, author, keyword, etc? Wouldn't it be cool if someone ported
Re:First (Score:4, Insightful)
Still doesn't make it something I see a lot of people wanting to do.
This is why I stopped reading Linux Journal. There would be some nice technical articles, but there seemed to be a lot how-to articles that only 1 or 2 people would care about. (i.e. Linux powered sump pump)
The "because you can" argument is getting old. I like the "because you can AND you can benefit from it".
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Presumable the person who built a linux-controlled/monitored sump pump did benefit from it. Just because you don't have an application for it doesn't mean that none exists. And if you've ever had a failed sump pump, or more incoming water than the sump could drain, you might understand the benefit of having a "smart" pump that could alert you to failures.
At the very least there's the benefit of having done something he enjoyed and produced a demonstrable product -- it's not any different than someone who li
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The "because you can" argument is getting old. I like the "because you can AND you can benefit from it".
Feel free to start "Applied Linux Journal"
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Well, I don't have one myself, so in some sense I must agree with the not-worth-it assessment. But it's not really expensive compared to a netbook, if we're talking about the Kindle 2 (the subject of this article) rather than the Kindle DX. It costs $299 [amazon.com], which is basically the going rate [newegg.com] for netbooks. So it'd be really deciding on features rather than price.
Kindle wins on: battery life, daylight visibility of the display, weight, free 3G internet
Netbooks win on: hardware (CPU/ram/hdd/etc.), color display,
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It's a 532MHz ARM11.
Somewhat Meta. (Score:3, Informative)
No, the REAL question is... why?
A Netbook is cheaper, faster, and designed to run it. Why pay Amazon for an overpriced specialty item then make it do something it was never intended to do? I can't imagine the thing can still access the 3G network for free (the author replied "YES BUT DON'T DO THAT" to someone who asked)...
And, yes, I know... "because we can". And I congratulate the person who managed this. It's an impressive technical achievement.
Still doesn't make it something I see a lot of people wanting to do. Why would anyone really want to take a one-trick pony and change the trick...?
My question is... doesn't it ALREADY [blogspot.com] run linux?
Re:Somewhat Meta. (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, it does, which is why it was easy enough to port ubuntu over. The real benefit here is that somebody could replace the (allegedly crappy) user interface with a new one, with proper pdf (with zoom) support, and some other features that should have been there in the first place. To code the UI for a new reader one could just use standard X11 programming techniques. That is to say, one could take xpdf, remove some of the crome of the application, and have a proper pdf reader, etc.
Annother benefit: It should be possible to ended the existing UI. For example, it should be possible to replace the crappy search with proper full text search. Doing some of that would require either breaking the DRM format, which would upset amazon, or replacing parts of the existing program. Doing the latter may be quite possible, since the code is java (IIRC), so one can just drop in replacement classes. If the java code is not obfuscated, then it may be downright easy (relatively speaking (It is always a pain to retrofit existing apps via reverse engineering)).
Re:First (Score:5, Insightful)
You have got to be kidding! I have a netbook and an ebook reader, and they are absolutely not replacements or each other! OK, I'll spell it out for you in detail.
Things the Kindle can do that the Netbook can't:
I have a high-end PC, a netbook, an ebook reader, and a smart phone. I am very glad I have all of them. Each of these devices has capabilities or conveniences not available on the other devices. These are great times to bee a technophile; anyone who dismisses this tech is pointless has no idea what he is talking about.
Re:First (Score:4, Informative)
Finally, someone who gets it.
I'm a grad student, and I can't begin to tell you how many PDF files my professors have distributed to classes as reading material. Hundreds of pages, probably thousands. Sometimes I find torrents of books I'm supposed to read for class; other times, the Kindle version is cheaper than any available used copy (and I get it instantaneously, no waiting a week for shipping).
I'd like a netbook too, mainly for taking notes, but they're different devices with different purposes.
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My post was not critical of the Kindle, per se. I haven't a use for one myself, but I recognize that others do.
My criticism was directed at the utility of hacking a Kindle and replacing the operating system.
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*IF* the 3G connection survived, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But the author himself merely replied "YES BUT DON'T DO IT" when asked if the 3G connection was still there.
Even with the loss of 3G, though, I suppose you have a good point. If you don't care about the thing talking, but you want to have a better index of books, or use it as a large GPS unit, or whatever, I suppose the tradeoff might be worth it.
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I have a high-end PC, a netbook, an ebook reader, and a smart phone.
And money.
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High end PC: $2000. Netbook: $400. Kindle: $300. Smart phone: $600.
That's less than $4k dollars. In an era where the average programmer makes $80k, that's a tiny amount to have a full array of cool tech. Just 5% of income for the sort of things men would once give kingdoms to posses.
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6) You can turn the Kindle's net connection off when you aren't using it.
Amazon gets far less info about me than my cell phone provider gets!
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A netbook is no more "designed" to run Ubuntu than the Kindle is.
The form factor of the Kindle might make more sense to a lot of
people. That's why it's successful as a book reader. Perhaps not
everyone wants a proprietary book reader. Perhaps it's time for
the advent of the "PC clone" version of book readers.
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A netbook is no more "designed" to run Ubuntu than the Kindle is.
Depends which netbook [markshuttleworth.com] you get.
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Please define "overpriced".
Re:First (Score:5, Insightful)
Whatever happened to doing things because they're fun or cool? I don't understand...he does something that is, by all accounts, really neat, and people ask him "Why? What's the practical purpose?"
He did it for the "Can-I-really-do-this?" factor. Isn't that enough?
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No, the REAL question is... will it blend?
I can think of one reason (Score:2, Interesting)
Gadgets get old fast in our culture, and people move on to the next thing, meaning the old gadgets drop in price severely, and poorer folks can get them then.
He's proven you can stick a full bloat linux distro on the thing, perhaps a few years from now when kindles start to get boring to richer short attention span people and they hit ebay for ten bucks, a lot will get repurposed because of this initial work in porting.
Just a thought..because I'm one of those folks who waits until the
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@nateboy: "No, the REAL question is... why?"
As always, the nattering neybobs of negativism chime in. Because he could. That's all the reason a geek needs. Anyway, I think its a cool hack. Maybe he can turn the whole bash into a Star Trekian Tricorder thingamabob.
Re:First (Score:4, Insightful)
Several people have remarked "Because you can". Someone stated "Because you can and you can benefit from it" as a better reason.
More particularly, I would say that "showing you can" shows you that it's at all possible to replace whatever the device was running. Immediate utility isn't even required. So, if anyone thinks of a better interface or new function that -would- improve the device as a whole, they now know it's possible to do it. They don't have to stop at "I wonder ..."
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Why not Debian? I know Ubuntu is built on top of Debian, but Ubuntu, to me seems to be the XP, Run on i386, look pretty and be easy to setup version of Debian that doesn't seem like it'd be suited for a Kindle.
Especially some of the emdebian stuff 'designed' for routers and other tiny appliances.
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Why not Debian?
Because Debian is crap on the desktop? And I'm a Debian 'fanboy' so I have a right to say that.
I have been developing some desktop virtual machines, I've tried Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty) and Debian Lenny.
Lenny is just not comparable with Jaunty for desktop use, and I'd imagine the same would apply to Kindle or Netbooks.
I'm not dissing Debian; I use Debian on servers, pretty much exclusively. I'd be very averse to using Ubuntu on servers.
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The Kindle is not a Desktop.
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The Kindle is not a Desktop.
To quote myself:
and I'd imagine the same would apply to Kindle or Netbooks.
I can't imagine Debian being BETTER than Ubuntu on the Kindle because Debian Lenny is so goddamn AWFUL for the desktop user experience (as opposed to the server 'user' experience). The Kindle being more like a desktop environment than a *server* environment.
Have I made myself clear now?
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It gives you a better base on which to start customizing the device--- e.g. once there was Linux on the XBox, people started producing software to turn them into media centers. The built-in OS on Kindle can't do much, and it's not easy to modify it to have it do more. For example, even on the Kindle's hardware it should be possible to have a better web browser than the really bad one that's built in.
Is the ultimate answer still "because we can"? (Score:2)
So the purpose of running a regular operating system on a Kindle is to give you a base on which to start customizing the device, right?
So ... What is the purpose of customizing the device?
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Well, to get a better web browser, for one.
Re:One obvious question (Score:5, Insightful)
(This is partly a joke - but only partly)
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You can already do that. (Score:3, Informative)
You can already do that. The Kindle appears to the computer as a USB mass storage device.
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Then it sounds like you want an external hard drive.
The Kindle doesn't have 802.11b/g/n or Bluetooth. Putting (a different distro of) Linux on it won't magically make that hardware appear.
Maybe, just maybe, putting this distro on it will make it possible to e-mail files as attachments over the Kindle's 3G connection (for all I know someone may have already figured out how to do that with the stock distro), but what's the point of turning it into a glorified USB pen drive?
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You're right, I misspoke with the external drive. Sounds like you want a netbook with a 3G connection. You'd get much more than the 2 GB of storage on the Kindle 2, and you'd get a lot better keyboard. You'd also get a better screen refresh rate.
Is it cool that they did this? Sure. But I can't see many practical reasons for doing so, other than perhaps abusing the 3G connection.
Re:One obvious question (Score:5, Informative)
I recently bought a Kindle book (was cheaper than used copies), and discovered that it appeared to have been scanned, and poorly at that. There were OCR artifacts, and the font was crappy. I read up on the situation, and found that Amazon offers refunds for 7 days after a Kindle book purchase. I called, complained, and was refunded the price for my purchase. (Not sure if the 7 days is accurate, read that online, but it worked for me).
I had backed up my Kindle files, and I was curious what would happen when I 'synced' the Kindle with its wireless connection. Sure enough, the book I was refunded for disappeared. Also out of curiosity, I restored the backed-up file of the book to the Kindle, and it was still readable.
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Until the next time it does a full sync with Amazon to confirm purchases. I wouldn't expect it to stick around forever.
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Perhaps by renaming them?
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You're approaching the problem all wrong.
The innovative side of human creativity comes from asking the opposite. You should not ask Why... but rather...
WHY NOT????
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Your post sums up all the things that are wrong in the popular mind, and exactly why research budgets are falling at a time when they need to be drastically expanded.
Furthermore, it's rather arrogant to diminish the very deserving accomplishments of others just because you simply lack the imagination to think past today. If you don't find any use to it, don't use it. This developer felt it was necessary/cool/practical/etc. to put Ubuntu on a Kindle. This is basically THE tenet that guides software develo
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So we should start spending our limited research dollars investigating how to install full Linux on devices that weren't meant to support it?
How exactly does that further the state of the art?
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In this case, the ability to have an inexpensive, hackable e-paper device would allow the development of improved usage patterns for low-refresh rate devices.
Right now there are only a few e-paper devices out there, so there's only been a few groups working on the UIs. With the community hacking at it, its very possible someone will find new, better ways to do things that make e-paper devices less specialized. All the complaints about the rather poor web-browser are largely based on a lack of creativity a
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...why?
Seriously, what is the purpose of running a regular operating system on the Kindle? I don't see how that would make it more useful or practical in any way.
I will admit that I'm not familiar with the Kindle as a device, but personally I consider the addition of just about any new mobile that can run vim (at least) to be a good thing.
Also, in some cases, the corporate world appears to want a scenario where dedicated devices are the norm. In other words, you buy a Kindle to read ebooks, but you have to buy an iPod as a seperate device to listen to music. This not only creates waste, but is also usurious for the consumer.
If the Kindle has a USB port, it can pr
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Now you can use the Kindle to author documents, and not just view them. You can probably also use a decent web browser for a change. Maybe even play some games, or IRC or whatever. Use your imagination.
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So 'ssh -D' into your home machine, and tunnel all your web traffic through there.
Crap, now I'm going to get /. blocked for "proxy avoidance".
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Fact: The kindle is as big as a laptop.
Fact: no, it's not. I have the largest Kindle, and it's much smaller than a laptop. Probably even thinner than the MacBook Air.
An eight hour, low power setting, would be more than enough to merit e-book reader status.
No, it would just be a tablet computer with long battery life.
Eight hours for an ebook reader is a joke. The Kindle manages a week of heavy usage. I'm not saying that Apple can't make a decent e-book reader, but tablets and ebook readers are different devices with different uses.
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Just like you, they don't realize that the books people want to display aren't just ASCII and have color.
The Kindle is not limited to displaying ASCII. Graphics, charts, photographs look quite good on the DX. Any kind of PDF I throw at it looks great.
As for color... probably 95% or more of my printed, physical books are black and white. And FWIW, I believe they are making progress on color e-ink displays, so that's probably just a matter of time. Maybe you're in a field where color is critical, in which case a tablet might be a better choice for you, but I doubt that's the case with the majority of people.
The one device philosophy would work the best in this case.
My e
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I think the weeks-long battery life is excellent for convenience. By the time I'm leaving for work in the morning, it's too late to charge stuff up.
Also, it's much, much nicer to hold an eBook than a netbook. With a netbook on a train I pretty much have to have it on the table, but I could hold up an eBook -- the Sony one is lighter than a normal paperback (IIRC).
(I don't own an eBook. The only thing stopping me buying one is the public library, which happens to be next to my local station. And that I don't