The 3D Un-Printer 91
An anonymous reader writes "3D printing is on its way toward becoming ubiquitous. Of course, if you have such a printer and want to print something, you need raw materials — the plastic filament that's fed into the machine. It's also likely that while you're learning the ropes, you'll print a bunch of terrible attempts at objects, and end up having to throw them out. Now, Wired is reporting on a device aiming to solve both of those problems. Tyler McNaney's 'Filabot' will break down failed projects as well as many other plastic items from traditional manufacturers, turning them into a filament you can then feed through a 3D printer. 'So far the plastics that work are HDPE, LDPE, ABS, NYLON. More to come on the different types that work.' McNaney sees it as a 'closed-loop recycling system on your desk.' The Filabot's Kickstarter campaign succeeded easily in 2012, and now he and his team are getting ready to launch."
Still waiting... (Score:2)
For Mr. Fusion.
Why waste time with recycling when I can just convert matter to energy?
Re:Still waiting... (Score:4, Funny)
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Fire's efficiency is abysmal. Pollutant as hell too.
Given how much you can get out of a ton of fissioned nuclear fuel, and how much you get out of a ton of fuel, fire can hardly be considered to create energy "pretty well"
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Take a look at rocket mass heaters. They are very efficient wood-burning heaters.
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Well, the last time I tried starting a small fission reaction at home, a bunch of people came over, made me stop the reaction, then made me stay in a small room for a long time.
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The Sun disagrees with your statement.
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I apologize for implementing a fission reactor instead of inventing cold fusion.
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whoooosh
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Re:Still waiting... (Score:5, Informative)
Um, no. It converts matter to other matter and release the potential energy stored within it. There is a theory about some 0.001% of the matter disappearing, but it's nowhere near "converted well".
Mass and energy are the *same thing* for these purposes. Whatever energy is released in the burning of a fire is manifested as a decrease in the mass of the reaction products. It's a tiny decrease, but real. The conversion is perfectly efficient, too. So although burning stuff may not be able to convert very much mass to energy, it does so "well" by most definitions.
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I assume that the mass you're talking about is the mass inherent in the energy from the chemical bonds that are broken. To say that mass is decreased then should depend on how you define the "reaction products". If the reaction products include the heat that comes from the reaction, then shouldn't the mass of the heat account for all of the lost mass?
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But so it was a form of energy that still possesses mass in some way before, and a form of energy that still posesses mass after, so if it's counted in the reaction products, then there was never any mass lost to the reaction. If it's not counted in the reaction products, then there was mass lost.
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GP is talking about combustion, not nuclear reaction. In this case, "tiny decrease" is still a huge understatement. For all intents and purposes, the energy released is from the change in chemical bonds, not conversion of mass->energy. Mass-balance is taught in chemistry and thermodynamics because (short of nuclear reactions) it works. Combustion is quite inefficient in engineering terms because (current) technology is incapable of realizing all of that released energy. It often does well enough but we c
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?...Yeah, I'd have to agree. Like you said:
It converts matter to other matter and release the potential energy stored within it. There is a theory about some 0.001% of the matter disappearing, but it's nowhere near "converted well".
Re:Still waiting... (Score:4, Informative)
No fire releases energy stored in the molecular bonds all the matter is still there after. Fire is a rapid decomposition releasing the stored energy as heat and light.
Nuclear is far far more efficient. http://xkcd.com/1162/ [xkcd.com]
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Do you need that much energy?
Unrelated, I have no idea about the manufacture or recycling/destruction of plastic: are there some risks related to toxins? For example, would there be poisonous fumes to worry about with printing or the unprinting? Just curious.
Re:Transmetropolitan (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, it would be worth it to me to clean the bottle if I could feed the bottle into some sort of machine which would reform the plastic into a more usable form.
It would make a market for used soda bottles, and get them off the street and out of our landfills. Our congress would also have to set the framework for original bottling to make sure all bottlers used the same plastic formulation so the reformers could use it.
I can well see the day when darned nearly anything plastic, especially things like pipe and fittings, could be made to order on the spot. Plastic things no longer wanted could be offered as feedstock to make something else.
Can you see going to Home Depot for some half-inch irrigation pipe and be able to pay for it in either dollars or recyclable plastic... and having them set their machine to extrude what you wanted right on the spot?
Re:Transmetropolitan (Score:5, Interesting)
Full recycling into anything other than bottles is slightly more involved so makes most sense in bulk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene_terephthalate#Processing_examples_for_recycled_polyester [wikipedia.org]
A lot of this material has been recycled near where I live for what seems like twenty years. Initially that meant that the black recycled material was a lot cheaper than anything else since you could throw in a lot of PET and if there's a bit of green or brown stuff in there you can just hide it all with black. That meant lots of cheap recycled black plastic for industrial purposes or things like wheelie bins (wheeled plastic trash containers around four foot high). Improved sorting and drink manufacturers mostly standardising on the same transparent PET means that now the transparent flakes are just about as cheap and then whatever color is desired gets added later, although there's probably just enough impurities that you don't want to use it to make a transparent plastic.
Bottle blowing machinery using plastic granules to feed it circa 1990 isn't really all that far removed from that and pipes could certainly be extruded using PET or similar. Something like a large "Home Depot" probably does have the economy of scale to make the granules if their customers are bringing in the right sort of plastics. The tricky bit seems to be sorting, and if the customers are doing that themselves before they bring the plastic in that makes everything a lot easier and possibly viable. I know I'd be happier to pay a bit more for a 620mm length of pipe made on the spot than cut it down from one metre.
In the construction industry at this point the amount of material wasted is enormous since the cost of materials is much cheaper than wages. The earlier practices of joining offcuts or even finding one long enough to do a job are gone. Being able to extrude parts to correct sizes onsite would save a lot of waste. Of course you can't easily do that with materials like steel, but steel is already so easy to recycle that it has a high enough scrap value that little is wasted, and the energy cost of remelting is not paticularly high.
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I've seen a place that regrinds recycled plastic into pipe, and it requires some huge equipment, and careful processing to get anything consistent enough to make safe long term pressurized plumbing pipe. To have a miniaturized version of that place that ran even remotely efficiently (without even having to buy the machine) so you could make the pipe for less than 5X what you would pay for it in the store (even if the raw material was nearly clean and free) and then including the cost of your labor... /.ram
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I have several almost perfectly good Gardner-Denver wirewrap tools... the black bakelite ones, I hate to throw such beauti
Nylon? (Score:5, Interesting)
That one is so easy to find from bags that it may be worth using those with this instead of throwing them away when you can't use them.
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Re:Nylon? (Score:5, Informative)
You mean the same Nylon that was tested and didn't even come close to any levels that could be considered toxic?
http://www.instructables.com/id/Is-3D-Printing-Safe-or-DIY-Testing-for-HCN-from-/ [instructables.com]
Re:Nylon? (Score:4, Interesting)
The people that tested it did not use an independent lab (or ANY lab, really...), and they also sell it. Grain of salt required here.
That said, cyanide offgassing is more of a problem when nylon is burning or severely overheated. Either way, caution is required.
=Smidge=
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If you would have opened it you would have seen they tried both. Weed whacker line was the stuff they used as non-3d-printing nylon.
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if your printer is outside, you're probably ok with most types of nylon.
but there's a variety for home printing that can be printed at ~235-250 temperatures, it's pretty cheap but harder to print than even abs, but makes very strong and flex tolerant parts (google for taulman 3d).
but alas, it doesn't stick too well and strings easily.. but well worth checking if you're into 3d printing.
personally it's not the recycling of the plastic that's limiting for me. it's the time for printing that is, big parts tak
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Bill
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You can find the density of PLA and ABS on wikipedia, so you can convert from a given weight of milk-jug plastic to a number of inches of 3mm thick filament. Most 3d printing enthusiasts don't even use volume or length of filament though, they just use weight.
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Do you mean the plastic grocery bags and vegetable/meat bags? All the ones in my house are marked "2" for HDPE, which is on the list. Of course, they might gum it up still:
Think a meat grinder on top of a pasta maker and you get the general idea.
Will need to do some hacking work on HP 3d one (Score:5, Funny)
Will need to do some hacking work so this can work with HP 3d printers.
Murder weapon? What murder weapon? (Score:5, Funny)
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Too messy. If you're not using your unprinter to process Soylent Green, you just aren't trying.
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But I can unprint the murder weapon, make a plate and cutlery set and dine on the victim's liver with it.
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Re:HDPE, LDPE, ABS, NYLON... (Score:5, Funny)
I can see this going very poorly for your average consumer very quickly.
You mean the subset of people who are capable of operating a 3D printer, but can't read numbers in a recycle label.
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While you have a point, most plastic things I've looked at in the hopes of recycling them do not have sufficient information on them. Or, any information relevant to recycling at all. Am I just that blind?
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Maybe. Almost any recyclable plastic explains what kind of plastic it is with a number referencing the type.
http://www.thedailygreen.com/green-homes/latest/recycling-symbols-plastics-460321#slide-1 [thedailygreen.com]
Here is a page with pictures explaining some of them.
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DIY extrusion solved? (Score:5, Insightful)
I was under the impression that extruders to create the feed filament were still pretty expensive.
Plastic pellet feed stock is cheap industrial commodity, a lot cheaper than the plastic spools that are ready to be fed in to your 3D printer.
Hell with feeding this with bits of old plastic. If you can just feed it a bag of pellets, and it's cheap to buy, we'd have solved one of the bigger issues with DIY 3D printing.
Re:DIY extrusion solved? (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:34653 [thingiverse.com]
As someone who is a large part of the community... (Score:5, Informative)
The Filabot has more marketing than it has engineering. The Lyman filament extruder has already surpassed the filabots noisy and slow output. Makible, makers of the soon to be $200 3D printer the Makibox (http://www.makibox.com), are releasing a 1.75mm extruder (dubbed the "ramen) that they've already demonstrated working in previous google plus hangouts. The filabot is overhyped and overplayed. They got huge funding via a kickstarter a while back and ever since then, produced a prototype machine that's on the level of the very first filament extruders the reprap project had to begin with.
Gary Hodgson has released the history of reprap development on his site: http://garyhodgson.com/reprap/reprap-developer-bookshelf/ [garyhodgson.com] - and if you look through the reprap ebook, you'll see people doing what the filabot is doing now....3 years ago.
This is a complete non-story that publications love to jump on, I just wish they would do their research first.
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"The Filabot has more marketing than it has engineering."
You just described the whole 3D printing fad. Can someone explain to me why when Don Lancaster was talking about Santa Claus machines over two decades ago, no one noticed? Ah, it was because virtual reality was on everyone's mind because VR was going to be the future!
Seriously, 20 years ago we had stepper motors, computers and hot glue guns... Why now?
Re:As someone who is a large part of the community (Score:4, Insightful)
It is becoming cheaper and cheaper. When the cost is low enough, more consumers will buy and it becomes profitable.
Once people put out designs to buy for stupid things that teenagers like, it will fly off shelves. Print out your own cell phone cases or designs you can stick on your text books.
Also, you have tinkerers who will think it is fun to play with at that price.
All it will take is one killer product and everyone will start wanting one.
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Once people put out designs to buy for stupid things that teenagers like, it will fly off shelves. Print out your own cell phone cases or designs you can stick on your text books.
Already happened: Nokia To Release Lumia Case Design Files For 3D Printers [slashdot.org]
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Yeah just like computer-controlled sewing machines took off in the 1980s. Remember when teenagers all designed their own patches and made their own clothes? Oh right, never happened. Oooh, I know, virtual reality will totally take over and people will walk around with VR glasses and design their own surroundings! Oh wait, that never happened either. What makes you think that the majority of the population thinks like you do and wants the same things you do? We invented mass production for a reason. Because
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"Remember when teenagers all designed their own patches and made their own clothes? Oh right, never happened."
I call bullshit. Did happen lots. Still happens. Happens more the further back you go and the poorer you get. Just doesn't apply to rich white folks anymore.
VIk :v)
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VR is a bit of a strawman example. VR hasn't hap
How do the filter crap out of the plastic? (Score:2)
I have a few reservations, and big disclaimer here - I make 3D printer filament. The main one is that the tiniest bit of crap in your plastic will inevitably find your printer's nozzle pinhole. If it does not fit through, you will block.
The other is that the machine does not yet seem to be fully functional and they're already welding up all the pretty boxes. Priorities, guys.
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Not sure how you could build a $200 3D printer. I did a BOM for my TITAN 3D printer. And I'm on about 300 euros. Just steppers and steppermotor drivers sets you back 100 euro. Leaving a 100 for hotend, rods, bearings, and all other parts...
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well. maybe they're using 5 dollar steppers.. http://dx.com/p/28ybt-48-stepper-motor-with-uln2003-driver-dc-5v-126409 [dx.com]
can't imagine other way to make it that cheap. (disc. I got a replicator and the reps on the rather expensive side imho for what you get..)
Closed loop? (Score:1)
So you'll print something, then have a robotic arm remove the finished product and place it in the unprinter, where it becomes a filament that feeds back to the printer?
That's even better than the printer-paper shredder combo I've been hearing about. I suppose it will still need energy input.
Say, I've got a black box sitting here that does all that, no energy input required. Except you can't look in to see the inner works, because that would break the loop.
But it will definitely manufacture anything you c
3d printing ubiquitous? Even color printing ain't. (Score:2)
>> 3d printing is ubiquitous
Really? Talk to me after offices start letting people print in color again...
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Closed loop (Score:1)
If only it could do polycarbonates... (Score:2)
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I know someone managed to print polycarbonates on a Reprap-style machine. Chewing them up shouldn't take too long either.. but CDs have more than just plastics in them, so I'm not sure if it'd work well.
Still, it'd be a good way to give -everyone- a decent stash of material to play with.
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So what if it can only produce cheap plastic crap? The 1970s showed us that you could do a lot with cheap plastic crap. For a st
Sporks! (Score:2)
Awesome, now I can melt down this drawer full of plastic spoons and forks and print me some nice sporks.
old 2d printers become 3d things (Score:2)