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Microsoft Mulling Smaller Windows 8 Tablets

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the cut-an-eight-get-two-zeros dept.

Displays 145

Nerval's Lobster writes "Microsoft might want a piece of the mini-tablet market. The company has lowered the minimum screen resolution for Windows 8 tablets, from 1,366 x 768 pixels to 1024 x 768 pixels. "This doesn't imply that we're encouraging partners to regularly use a lower screen resolution," it wrote in an accompanying newsletter. "We understand that partners exploring designs for certain markets could find greater design flexibility helpful." As pointed out by ZDNet's Ed Bott—cited by other publications as the journalist who first noticed the altered guidelines—that lowered resolution "would allow manufacturers to introduce devices that are in line with the resolutions of the iPad Mini (1024 x 768) and the Kindle Fire and Google Nexus 7 (both 1280 x 800)." Whatever the contours of the smaller-tablet market, it's certainly popular enough to tantalize any potential competitor. But if Microsoft plunges in, it will face the same challenges that confronted it in the larger-tablet arena: lots of solid competitors, and not a whole lot of time to make a winning impression. There are also not-inconsiderable hardware challenges to overcome, including processor selection and engineering for optimal battery life."

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resolution!! (1)

houbou (1097327) | about 2 years ago | (#43313635)

there's very little excuse not to have tablets running at 1200 x 800.

Re:resolution!! (1)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about 2 years ago | (#43313783)

It's one thing if you're trying to cater to e.g. developing economies or emerging ones (yes, there's a difference) but windows 8 doesn't allow much flexibility in that department due to other hardware requirements. For example, it's basically impossible to run windows (rt or regular) on anything less than 32gb of nv storage, with dare I say a practical minimum of 64gb.

Their best bet would be to put WP8 on the lower end tablets if anything.

Re:resolution!! (1)

noh8rz10 (2716597) | about 2 years ago | (#43313841)

I read the summary very closely to see if I could make a "that's what she said" joke, but I came up short.

Re:resolution!! (1)

noh8rz10 (2716597) | about 2 years ago | (#43313847)

That's what she said!

Re:resolution!! (1)

phalse phace (454635) | about 2 years ago | (#43314325)

I came up short.

That's what she said.

Re:resolution!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43313913)

Their best bet would be to dump this tech and start anew. At Microsoft, if a product doesn't fit the Windows model it is usually rejected. But those times when Microsoft needs a product because the market has moved on, they will do their damnedest to pound that round peg through that square hole to make it Windows compatible.

Re:resolution!! (2)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 2 years ago | (#43314077)


MS is like Apple from Bizarro-planet. Everything round is even squared. How appropriate.

"I think we copied everything down to the wooden tables and bar at the back. Now, when does the money come flying into our wallets?" [jawaexpress.com]

Copying Apple does not apply (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#43314287)


MS is like Apple from Bizarro-planet. Everything round is even squared. How appropriate.

"I think we copied everything down to the wooden tables and bar at the back. Now, when does the money come flying into our wallets?" [jawaexpress.com]

...I definitely agree that, Microsoft is chasing those early heady tablet days, when people bought into Apples shiny new toy...even with its hardware and lock-in with proprietary solutions, with locked down closed hardware, and they are Failing right now, Its stupid.

I will agree in the context of this article that Microsoft is following Apple in producing hardware in the same dimensions as the Android 7" tablet market...but they do so for very different reasons, Apple is trying to stave of competition[Read great value Android 7"] with its floundering market share...while Microsoft is trying to get some kind of market traction at all.

...as for the store thing though, it looks like every other store in London.

Re:resolution!! (1)

mcneely.mike (927221) | about 2 years ago | (#43315383)

do their damnedest to pound that round peg through that square hole.

Now..... 'that's what she said.' :)

Re:resolution!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43315577)

A Class 10 32GB SD card is like $20 and a Class 10 64GB SD card is like $30.

Storage is hardly the problem nor the cost.

Paper (3, Insightful)

jones_supa (887896) | about 2 years ago | (#43313671)

The aspect ratio of 4:3 is quite close to A-type paper sizes, so it's nice for PDFs.

Except this is resolution not Dimensions. (2)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#43313955)

This is about putting windows on cheaper hardware, as windows is failing to sell at the high end. So if you are expecting a plethora of screen sizes and dimensions...its unlikely, as thinks with those dimensions are not cheap components. It will end up a failure like the ipad mini [expensive due to microsoft tax, and with low resolution screens, last years cpu]...with less popularity.

I suspect most people will benefit from a more video friendly/properly formatted ebook/Game friendly screen, not forgetting that you lose Windows one trick...split screen windows [although you lose that on the small screens anyway]...hell even its one usage seems stupid as you will also lose resolution!?...its why you see so few options in that form factor.

The only reason I can see you mentioning it is to troll for Apple...and right now they need all the help they can get.

Re:Paper (3, Interesting)

Rogue Haggis Landing (1230830) | about 2 years ago | (#43314415)

The aspect ratio of 4:3 is quite close to A-type paper sizes, so it's nice for PDFs.

Yes, and it's closer to US letter-sized paper than 16:10 is. I've also long thought that a 4:3 screen is better for using the tablet as a laptop replacement with a bluetooth keyboard. At 16:10 the screen is too wide in landscape and too narrow in portrait. 4:3 is much better for this (though of course generally worse for watching video).

So I really want a 4:3 tablet, but I don't want to buy an iPad. The list of 4:3 Android tablets is short and undistinguished [xda-developers.com] , owing (I presume) to Android being aimed at the 16:10 form factor. I don't especially want to buy a Windows 8 tablet, but a Windows tablet is likely to be more flexible than an iPad, and eventually there will be one with a better build quality and a better screen than most or all of the Android tablets in the link above.

So good for Microsoft and whatever hardware vendors winkled this out of them. I'd rather have a really nice 4:3 Android tablet, but that doesn't exist right now. "OK" might not be as good as "good", but it's better than "meh".

Great! (2, Insightful)

Farmer Pete (1350093) | about 2 years ago | (#43313727)

Finally, I can get a smaller Microsoft tablet. I did think that Microsoft's tablet idea was complete garbage, and I had no intention of buying one ever. Now that they might have a smaller one, I have done a complete flip flop. I think these new smaller tablets could be the best thing ever! I mean, the fact that they still have the application ecosystem problems and that Windows really is a crappy tablet OS no matter what size may still be true. But if I could just get it a little smaller, I'd be SOOO happy!!!!!!!!

Seriously, Microsoft should just give up. Stop wasting money. If you want to make money, create a tablet to go after the XBOX crowd, since that's the only thing you can do that's remotely right.

Re:Great! (2)

pspahn (1175617) | about 2 years ago | (#43313831)

I own a Galaxy Player 5", and it's getting to the point where I'd love to update and get something newer. Unfortunately, nobody sees the market for a phone sized device that isn't actually a phone.

I don't have a cell phone... don't really want one. I'd much rather just have my mini-tablet that I can connect to my wifi-hotspot pretty much anywhere in most cities.

Re:Great! (4, Interesting)

Farmer Pete (1350093) | about 2 years ago | (#43313925)

I don't know how much you want to spend, but the obvious choice would be going with a Nexus 4. It is a phone, but at $300-$350, it's pretty cheap. Also, you can pop in a pay as you go, talk only SIM card and get real cheap service. Then you can just use the WiFi for data. So you can use it for your phone, but do so without paying the large fees that VZ, ATT, and Sprint charge.

IMEI (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#43314199)

Also, you can pop in a pay as you go, talk only SIM card and get real cheap service.

Are you sure the carrier won't detect your device's IMEI as a "smartphone" and slam you onto a smartphone plan? Some U.S. GSM carriers have been reported to do that.

Re:IMEI (1)

Farmer Pete (1350093) | about 2 years ago | (#43314457)

Are you sure the carrier won't detect your device's IMEI as a "smartphone" and slam you onto a smartphone plan? Some U.S. GSM carriers have been reported to do that.

The standard USA Postpaid carriers do that. That's why you go with a prepaid plan. Apart from saving you a bundle of money, prepaid plans have a lot more flexibility in price structure. If you want to use a smartphone for just talking and texting, you don't need to pay for a costly data plan.

Re:IMEI (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#43314955)

That's why you go with a prepaid plan.

Don't most of the prepaid carriers piggyback on Sprint, a CDMA2000 carrier? U.S. CDMA2000 handsets tend not to use removable CSIM cards, and the prepaid carrier Virgin Mobile USA (a division of Sprint) won't activate a voice-only plan on a phone capable of data.

If you want to use a smartphone for just talking and texting, you don't need to pay for a costly data plan.

So which U.S. prepaid carriers do you recommend for fewer than 30 minutes a month and no data?

Re:Great! (1)

Jiro (131519) | about 2 years ago | (#43314831)

A Nexus 4 doesn't have an SD card slot. What phone would you recommend that is pretty good for non-phone purposes, falls in a similar price range or lower, and allows an SD card?

Re:Great! (1)

vivek7006 (585218) | about 2 years ago | (#43315335)

That is exactly what I have been doing for over 6 months. Nexus 4 + pay as you go from tmobile + WiFi

Re:Great! (4, Insightful)

AuMatar (183847) | about 2 years ago | (#43313953)

Because the market for this is vanishingly small, in fact its almost 0. Almost everyone has a phone. So why would they want a device that runs the same software and has the same capabilities, but doesn't have cellular data, sms, or voice? The only reason to make them is to cater to the market of people who

1)don't want a cell phone
2)want a pocket sized computer
3)don't want a data plan
4)are too cheap to just buy an unlocked phone without data, which includes the idea of just buying a used phone and not buying a data plan
5)yet are willing to pay enough to buy a device that will have higher up front costs, due to lack of a subisdized model

I'd be shocked if the total market for the product was in the millions in the industrial world. Your niche isn't worth the cost of marketing to, just suck it up and buy an unlocked phone without a data plan.

Be shocked ten times over. (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#43314235)

4) are too cheap to just buy an unlocked phone without data, which includes the idea of just buying a used phone and not buying a data plan

Or 4a) live in an area where carriers won't activate a non-data plan on a phone capable of a data plan

I'd be shocked if the total market for the product was in the millions in the industrial world.

Be shocked ten times over. Apple has sold tens of millions of iPod touch units. What's so great about iOS that makes it so much better than any other operating system for this use case?

Re:Be shocked ten times over. (1)

AuMatar (183847) | about 2 years ago | (#43314599)

iPods are music players. People are used to buying them, and not used to just using their phones. Its carry over sales. And their numbers are decreasing by double digit numbers year over year. A new player could try to position themselves as a music player, but their chances of success are slim without the years of name recognition and itunes platform. Plus its a decreasing market. Nobody with sane business sense would try.

As for #4- you said you didn't want a cell phone. You wanted a wifi only device. So the carriers don't need to activate anything. Just buy the phone, but don't buy a plan for it at all. Plenty of stores will hook you up with that- just go to any radio shack, best buy, etc.

Dumbphone + 4" tablet (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#43314921)

As for #4- you said you didn't want a cell phone. You wanted a wifi only device.

Maybe I wasn't clear. Currently I carry an Audiovox 8610 dumbphone and an Archos 43 (4" Android 2.2 tablet), and I pay $7 per month to Virgin Mobile USA for "payLo" service on the phone because I don't use a lot of minutes. Any call much longer than "pick me up at the bus stop" can wait until I come home to the land line. If I were to consolidate these into one device, I'd have to upgrade to "Beyond Talk" service, which starts at $35 per month.

Re:Dumbphone + 4" tablet (1)

SternisheFan (2529412) | about 2 years ago | (#43315307)

What I've learned from reading other comments on /. cellphone stories is this: All you do is pay for a month or two of service to Virgin Mobile, then call them to say that you are thinking of switching to another company for a better deal (with carrier X). The VM rep will offer you the same plan (300 minutes/ Unlimited Talk/ Text) for $25. (I'm ''grandfathered'' in at the $25 rate, been with VM for years)

Re:Be shocked ten times over. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43314971)

iPods are music players.

You're an idiot.

They're exactly what's being discussed - a phone sized form factor with WiFi only network connections.

Re:Great! (1)

Just Some Guy (3352) | about 2 years ago | (#43315085)

So why would they want a device that runs the same software and has the same capabilities, but doesn't have cellular data, sms, or voice?

Apple sold about 4 million iPod Touches [zdnet.com] in Q1 2013. As it turns out, there's a pretty decent market for exactly the device you're describing.

Re:Great! (1)

fuzznutz (789413) | about 2 years ago | (#43314203)

Get an iPod touch. That's how I used mine until I finally went with a smartphone. My son uses his iPod Touch 4g that way and it's pretty nice.

Re:Great! (3, Interesting)

spire3661 (1038968) | about 2 years ago | (#43313909)

A $200 Win 8 RT tablet could be compelling, and I hate M$.

Re:Great! (2)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about 2 years ago | (#43314035)

I'm trying to think of what you'd actually do with it though. In spite of Balmer's "developers developers developers" rain dance, it never did end up raining.

In spite of what their PR department says, MS has a rather hostile attitude towards developers.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/tales-from-the-trenches-how-microsoft-is-losing-the-battle-for-indie-develo [penny-arcade.com]

It especially shows in RT due to the lack of apps that actually do anything that a web browser can't already do better. In fact a lot of those apps are basically just nothing other than a walled garden IE instance of a link to an already existing web page.

Re:Great! (1)

X0563511 (793323) | about 2 years ago | (#43314627)

It rained chairs.

Re:Great! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43314041)

I dare you to name ONE Metro app that does something an iOS or Android app couldn't do better.

Re:Great! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43315487)

Package Tracker. An iOS or Android app could do the same thing, but I'm not sure they could do it better, and if so that fact would really not have anything to do with the underlying OS.

Re:Great! (2)

Farmer Pete (1350093) | about 2 years ago | (#43314493)

I don't know what Microsoft charges for their Windows 8 RT OS, but I'm guessing it's a large chunk of that $200 price target you think would be compelling. Even if the OS could run on the same hardware as a $200 android tablet, you're price is going to be $250-$300 to account for license costs. Of course, I would be very surprised if Windows 8 RT didn't need substantially more power to operate well.

Re:Great! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43314517)

Hating Microsoft is so 1999. Hating Apple and Google is the "in" thing to do nowadays.

Re:Great! (1)

X0563511 (793323) | about 2 years ago | (#43314629)

You say that like we can't just hate all three?

Re:Great! (1)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about 2 years ago | (#43313967)

I think if microsoft wants to hit this market segment, they should scale up WP8 rather than try to scale down W8. The hardware requirements for W8 are just stupid for anything other than what we classically consider a PC.

Re:Great! (1)

roc97007 (608802) | about 2 years ago | (#43314065)

> I mean, the fact that they still have the application ecosystem problems and that Windows really is a crappy tablet OS no matter what size may still be true

Daughter had a Windows 7 tablet that was essentially shelfware. (Windows 7 tablet support is pants.) I installed Windows 8 pro a couple weeks ago to see if we could breathe new life into it. No such luck. I mean, the tiles fly about and everything, but it's so painful to do anything except the simplest of media consumption, that we end up putting it away and going back to our Windows 7 workstations. Daughter wants to try a Samsung Note next. That looks like it might be a better fit.

Re:Great! (2)

icebike (68054) | about 2 years ago | (#43315207)

Yup, I had a Windows 7 tablet too.
HP Slate something something, running an Atom processor. Pretty useless, slow, but I needed it for testing in my day job.

Just got Windows 8 Pro running Core i5 64bit. (Again, needed for my day job).
Whole different story. I will finally be able to leave my monster laptop at home when I travel.

This is a very nice machine, and Windows 8 makes more sense on this device than on any laptop.

Too expensive mind you, but fully capable, and FAST.

It even runs VmWare Player (very well) so I can have another OS stored on the MicroSD card and run it concurrently.
Every piece of Windows software I've thrown at it works perfectly out of the gate, even our proprietary stuff.

If the price would come down three or four hundred bucks they would sell boatloads of these. For me its a tax write-off, as
it would be for much of the business world. But Home users looking for web surfing and email would be better off with
an Android or IOS tablet.

I've got lots of Linux machines and an android tablet and phone. I've spent years hating Microsoft, (while making good money
working in that environment). For what I need to do, this is a very viable device.

Re:Great! (0)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | about 2 years ago | (#43314349)

LMAO - flamebait. You win some, you lose some. If I had mod points, I'd probably slap you with a "funny". ;^)

Re:Great! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43315469)

Have you used a Microsoft Surface? Win8 has issues, and I'm loathe to put it on a laptop or desktop machine, where Win7 and/or Slackware 14 (depending on the system) suits me just fine thank-you-very-much, but I have a Surface and it's a nice table. Build quality is fan-fucking-tastic, and Win8/RT/Whatever-it's-called-today suits it well. There are a few oddities in the software that betray its desktop-OS roots, but overall it's pretty nice.

I really believe the main downfall of the Surface is the price - pricing it in the same ballpark as an iPad was a mistake, even if it does have a few features the iPad doesn't (a real, full-sized USB port for one).

The other downfall, I think, is pushing it to market before the software was really polished. It would be one thing if it was a race to market, but the company is so far behind now that another month or two probably wouldn't have hurt. Adding confusion with the whole x86 vs ARM, RT vs. Pro really didn't help either. Choice isn't always good, as it can confuse the consumer and turn them off entirely.

Yes, I'm sure that will do (5, Funny)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | about 2 years ago | (#43313747)

Obviously the reason behind poor Metro adoption is the screen resolution and overall dimensions of the tablet. How could those Microsoft engineers have missed that one?

Re:Yes, I'm sure that will do (1)

Farmer Pete (1350093) | about 2 years ago | (#43313805)

I know right? I'm already saving my monies so I can have enough to buy the smaller tablets when they are released. I was going to hack a Kindle Fire to load Windows 8 RT on it, but then I got bored so I stopped.

Re:Yes, I'm sure that will do (2)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#43313887)


The IPAD is the B&W of tablets and sets the standards. Problem is at $700 for a toy most Americans are struggling to pay their bills and break even every month so this is not an option. Android is taking over the cheaper more cost effective tablets.

It was not hte lack of a start button, but rather a tablet that was more expensive at $1200 for the full version with a SSD not 90% full on arrival with no GPS or even G3/G4 data. I mean come on! So it is essentially useless for the traveler at the airport or in a long car trip who needs voice navigation or weather reports. No data, no location, but $300 more and no apps.

Not to mention there are no apps. I assumed at this point last year there would be tons of Metro applets as Microsoft owns such a large marketshare of desktops that every app developer would be porting apps. But at 50k forget it! The IPAD in 2009 had more apps from their iphones.

MS needs to make it lower cost as the cheap Acer Android tablets are castrated laptops without these features. If you want an expensive system you need to have everything and yes that includes a start menu button on the Pro series for desktop users who have mice/keyboards.

Re:Yes, I'm sure that will do (1)

fwarren (579763) | about 2 years ago | (#43314227)

50k apps, but that is only if you count apps in other languages. Apps in english are around 35k and this is after MS promised 100k apps by Feb 1.

Not exactly a roaring success

Re:Yes, I'm sure that will do (3, Interesting)

hsmith (818216) | about 2 years ago | (#43314421)

Lets also not forget that WP8 Apps and W8 Apps aren't the "same" - unlike iOS and Android, they are separate SDK frameworks. So, you have to do twice the work to hit the "Windows 8" platform. What a great use of resources, for a platform no one wants.

Re:Yes, I'm sure that will do (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#43314657)

Lets also not forget that WP8 Apps and W8 Apps aren't the "same" - unlike iOS and Android, they are separate SDK frameworks. So, you have to do twice the work to hit the "Windows 8" platform. What a great use of resources, for a platform no one wants.

That irritated me too! I was told they are very similiar though and a breeze to port. However, I do not want to blow $200 for Win8 and vmware to develop it as MS refuses to support Windows 7. Sorry, I wont change my host OS to that turd and I am not a developer professionally so I will stick with my free Android tools instead.

Re:Yes, I'm sure that will do (1)

steelfood (895457) | about 2 years ago | (#43313919)

Funny thing though, because this isn't really lowering the resolution so much as it's changing aspect ratios. Metro looks like it'd fit 4:3 better. It really looks like crap on a widescreen (16:10 or 16:9), with half the boxes getting cut off by the screen to the right.

It felt like the hardware department wasn't really talking to the software department. Or the Metro guys had 4:3 in mind, while everybody else was going with widescreen.

This is obviously the least of Microsoft's failures with Metro. But there's always the silver lining, that they're actually encouraging the hardware side to go back to 4:3. Apple's been sticking with 4:3 for their iPad, but that wouldn't have the industry-wide impact Microsoft's suggestions hopefully would.

Re:Yes, I'm sure that will do (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 2 years ago | (#43314063)

Apple's been sticking with 4:3 for their iPad, but that wouldn't have the industry-wide impact Microsoft's suggestions hopefully would.

Because the entire pad indiustry is at Microsoft's beck and call?

Re:Yes, I'm sure that will do (2)

icebike (68054) | about 2 years ago | (#43315239)

This is obviously the least of Microsoft's failures with Metro.

If you think Metro is a failure because of screen ratio you are nuts. It has nothing to do with ratio.

Its a failure because people don't like scrolling halfway around the world looking for monster Icons just to launch applications
that they used to be able to launch quickly from a small desktop icon or a start bar. Its a failure because only a few apps work
perfectly with Metro, and the rest still launch a desktop (sans a proper Start Menu).

Metro ONLY works on small devices. Hang it on a 24 inch screen and you will yank your hair out scrolling.
But on a tablet it works passably well. You can get used to its idiosyncrasies fairly quickly.

That said, Microsoft should be gunning for larger tablets, not smaller ones.

Re:Yes, I'm sure that will do (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43313923)

I would be even more impressed if they reduced the obscene amount of RAM this bloated O/S needs just to run!

Re:Yes, I'm sure that will do (2)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 2 years ago | (#43314043)

Obviously the reason behind poor Metro adoption is the screen resolution and overall dimensions of the tablet. How could those Microsoft engineers have missed that one?

It's a secret plan. This coming fall they are going to drop resolution to 640 by 480, and usher in a glorious new age of tablet computing with them, Microsoft, at the helm.

Re:Yes, I'm sure that will do (3, Interesting)

ducomputergeek (595742) | about 2 years ago | (#43314183)

Microsoft is going all in on the idea that the desktop is going the way of the dodo and that by 2015 EVERYTHING will have a touch screen. I've long made the argument that if touch really was the future of everything Apple would have had touch screen Macbooks and iMacs a long time ago.

I went to a developers event last fall for work. I understand that MS is wanting to unify all of it's UI's across it's various platforms. Whether it's a good/bad UI is subjective, but it was clear that was the goal. The other developers at the event joked in the elevator about the problems of touchscreens with desktops. And I will say some of their decisions when you listen to why the did what they did do make sense, but the problem is are those changes worth the cost? Especially to businesses where change, any change, adds up quickly in soft costs. Maybe if they had introduced Metro on the tablets and phones with a classic "windows start bar" desktop + "metro mode" when you click a button or key (what apple is doing in OSX with launchpad like or hate it) to get people used to the idea and changes to the interface before converting over in Windows 9 it would have gotten a better response. Instead they are trying to change how people have worked with computers in the office since 1995.

The truth is the desktop isn't going anywhere in the enterprise. The whole appification trend we've been seeing works for consumption of content. It doesn't work for content creation. Since most of my days are spend reading emails, texts, phone calls, looking at documents others create, and meetings, generally I leave the laptop on my desk and bring my iPhone & iPad. Same goes for a lot of our sales team. Most are carrying some kind of tablet/smart phone and find that's all they need and it's a lot lighter. But they are mostly consuming and in a pinch if you need to make a quick change to a document or write a brief email response tablets work great. Last year I tried to replace my laptop and got the keyboard case and the docking station for the iPad, but the apps just weren't there yet. Try creating anything more than a basic spreadsheet or report in Pages on an iPad. But I found if I'm going to have to compose a long email, document, or spreadsheet that I want a keyboard, mouse, and big monitor. Basically what I have sitting in front of me. And a lot of workers need because it makes their job easier.

Currently I have a 15" macbook pro on my desk with a 26" Acer monitor beside it and external keyboard and mouse. Then I at least have the option of working from other locations when I need to and I do travel places for days at a time. But the people who work in the office day in and out, they all have iMacs or Mac Mini's depending on what they're doing. Again, they are usually creating content, editing graphics & video and they want the large screens. They don't care about taking their work home at the end of the day either. Our graphics people aren't going to be editing photos of models on an iPad anytime soon.

Touchscreen rules (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#43314619)

by 2015 EVERYTHING will have a touch screen.

I love touchscreen, and most people are very happy with using a touch screen. I would *love* a 27" touch screen monitor, hell little Android windows running all over it. It would be great...just most of us are against sacrificing the current wimp experience + keyboard and mouse, for whole touched experience [including hardware that doesn't support it] , but Microsoft have done it for a mobile market grab.

As for using Apple as a barometer for the future of technology. I think you need to look elsewhere, its kind of depressing seeing that Video http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-02/20/bill-gates-mobile-phones [wired.co.uk] where Bill wasn't his usual diplomatic self, and let his pride slip in. Most here had an mp3/tablet/smartphone/portable handheld computer before Apple had invented the market...hell want a smart TV, buy an AndroidTV dongle for $40

Re:Touchscreen rules (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43315003)

I would *love* a 27" touch screen monitor

I have a 24" monitor. To be at a comfortable viewing angle for me, it is 24" back from the front edge of my desk. That makes it already beyond my extended reach. A 27" monitor would be even worse.

A laptop with a touch screen would be bearable, because the display is then just beyond the keyboard. But laptops are a compromise for portability, and when portability is not a requirement, a larger display, further away and at a higher elevation, is more ergonomic. And as soon as you do that, a touch screen results in gorilla arm.

And that is not even considering that a pointing interface (even a mouse) is slower than using a keyboard for almost all tasks. At work I use Windows and Microsoft applications, and I am far less productive there than on my Mac at home, where keyboard shortcuts are discoverable and the configuration of keyboard shortcuts in any (Cocoa) application is built into the operating system.

Gorrila Arms=Not Invented by Jobs (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#43315203)

a touch screen results in gorilla arm

No..it doesn't I'm sorry. In reference to your post, personally I think it is a massive failure on behalf of Apple to not reinvent the PC, at the expense of recreating the massive profits for its floundering iPhone profits. If it did I suspect touch screen would be part of the equation, unfortunately for that kind of innovation we have to look toward Google Chome and its Pixel laptop.

In reference to the actual Gorilla Arm...seriously. If I had to type on my screen all day maybe, but I would love the ability to scroll large share graphs, manipulate maps...things where direct touch helps, and no I don't want it to come with sacrifice of a touch dominated interface. I want touch where its appropriate (winks)

Re:Touchscreen rules (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43315033)

Want a smart TV that works well?

Buy an Apple TV dongle for $99

No Android TV (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#43315243)

Buy an Apple TV dongle for $99

I'm not locked into the Apple ecosystem so it simply Does not work! I would have to use something that supports open standards. I actually went for a rasberry pi running XBMC. FYI a Apple TV in my country is $150, for its crippled experience.

Either way though I was referring to the mythical AppleTV that would save Apple from its insane share price drop from of $705 to $440, as its current offering look incredibly weak.

Re:Yes, I'm sure that will do (1)

notknown86 (1190215) | about 2 years ago | (#43314959)

Obviously, they misread "Microsoft will have to settle for a small share of the tablet market" as "Microsoft will have to settle for a share of the small tablet market".

Pointless (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43313751)

A smaller turd is still a turd.

Further brand weakening (0)

backslashdot (95548) | about 2 years ago | (#43313765)

Windows on low end computers suck. Windows 8 would have the same market share as Windows Phone (nearly zero) if it wasn't for their Windows and MS Office monopoly. The currently available products of Microsoft I have respect for are Windows 7, Visual Studio, and MS Office. Windows 8 is horrible. Windows Phone is halfway decent. It would have been competitive in 2008.

Microsoft is going to ruin its brand even further by allowing Windows to run on crapboxes.

Re:Further brand weakening (1)

roc97007 (608802) | about 2 years ago | (#43314097)

Windows on low end computers suck. Windows 8 would have the same market share as Windows Phone (nearly zero) if it wasn't for their Windows and MS Office monopoly. The currently available products of Microsoft I have respect for are Windows 7, Visual Studio, and MS Office. Windows 8 is horrible. Windows Phone is halfway decent. It would have been competitive in 2008.

Microsoft is going to ruin its brand even further by allowing Windows to run on crapboxes.

Um, I own a couple of those "crapboxes" and that term is dead right if one describes "crapbox" as a low end computer running Windows. Running something else, different story.

Re:Further brand weakening (1)

DogDude (805747) | about 2 years ago | (#43314177)

Windows on low end computers suck.

That's funny. I have lots and lots of boxes that run Windows XP just fine, but Ubuntu doesn't even install on. What do you put on low end computers? DOS?

2007 want your argument back. (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#43314417)

That's funny. I have lots and lots of boxes that run Windows XP just fine, but Ubuntu doesn't even install on. What do you put on low end computers? DOS?

Not funny at all. In 2007 pre Vista, a well configured bit-rot free Microsoft XP could run like a dream on contemporary hardware, and required less memory [that a heavyweight Desktop like Gnome], and greater hardware support [it had been around for like forever]

Its not 2007 anymore, the dominant OS is set to be Android this year, and on low end computer. I tend to put a Ubuntu on [I'm lazy] which word like a dream on anything. Its hardware support is better than anything.

Re:2007 want your argument back. (0)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#43314787)

Notice your emphasis on bit-rot free.

XP needs a good reformat every 6 months to a year. Or you could be like the rest of the users and have no problem waiting 5 minutes for your computer to startup everyday.

I really do not understand the obsession of those that want to keep using that old POS OS? To me it damages the Windows brandname even if 7 does not turn into a slug with corporate crapware after awhile. Everything else is instant on and off.

...and we are off topic. (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#43315145)

I really do not understand the obsession of those that want to keep using that old POS OS?

Because a lots of hardware didn't work with Vista+, I have scanners, wifi cards...and whole computers that will never run Windows 7, but overall windows 7 is a beefy OS it requires lots of ram/processor/*average* graphics card...XP not as much it could cope with as little as 256mb something Linux with Gnome struggled with.

In context of this article its one of the reasons why Microsoft is in this mess. The fact that Microsoft threw the netbook market...now called the surface market under the bus, for a few dollars more, because Windows 7 struggled on atom+intel graphics hardware, and then completely destroyed it with windows 7 crippled edition on crippled hardware.

...and here they are years later recreating the netbook...calling it a tablet, on hardware that cannot cope with it. I'm waiting for the people to call them to open source their OS. Personally I'm just glad they are less relevant today.

Re:...and we are off topic. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43315277)

I ran a surface RT and it is not slugish or bloated. 7 is not vista and runs fine if you have 1 - 2 gigs of ram. The surface has 4 gigs I believe and even an intel 4 year old 950 chip can run aero fine. Your hardware is probably slower than an arm tablet with much less ram.

Performance is not an issue

I am being stalked/harassed/impersonated... apk (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43313767)

A corrupt slashdot luser has infiltrated the moderation system to downmod all my posts while impersonating me.

Nearly 180++ times that I know of @ this point for all of March 2013 so far, & others here have told you to stop - take the hint, lunatic (leave slashdot)...

Sorry folks - but whoever the nutjob is that's attempting to impersonate me, & upset the rest of you as well, has SERIOUS mental issues, no questions asked! I must've gotten the better of him + seriously "gotten his goat" in doing so in a technical debate & his "geek angst" @ losing to me has him doing the:


A.) $10,000 challenges, ala (where the imposter actually TRACKED + LISTED the # of times he's done this no less, & where I get the 180 or so times I noted above) -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3585795&cid=43285307 [slashdot.org]


B.) Reposting OLD + possibly altered models - (this I haven't checked on as to altering the veracity of the info. being changed) of posts of mine from the past here


(Albeit massively repeatedly thru all threads on /. this March 2013 nearly in its entirety thusfar).

* Personally, I'm surprised the moderation staff here hasn't just "blocked out" his network range yet honestly!

(They know it's NOT the same as my own as well, especially after THIS post of mine, which they CAN see the IP range I am coming out of to compare with the ac spamming troll doing the above...).


P.S.=> Again/Stressing it: NO guys - it is NOT me doing it, as I wouldn't waste that much time on such trivial b.s. like a kid might...

Plus, I only post where hosts file usage is on topic or appropriate for a solution & certainly NOT IN EVERY POST ON SLASHDOT (like the nutcase trying to "impersonate me" is doing for nearly all of March now, & 180++ times that I know of @ least)... apk

P.S.=> here is CORRECT host file information just to piss off the insane lunatic troll:


21++ ADVANTAGES OF CUSTOM HOSTS FILES (how/what/when/where/why):

Over AdBlock & DNS Servers ALONE 4 Security, Speed, Reliability, & Anonymity (to an extent vs. DNSBL's + DNS request logs).

1.) HOSTS files are useable for all these purposes because they are present on all Operating Systems that have a BSD based IP stack (even ANDROID) and do adblocking for ANY webbrowser, email program, etc. (any webbound program). A truly "multi-platform" UNIVERSAL solution for added speed, security, reliability, & even anonymity to an extent (vs. DNS request logs + DNSBL's you feel are unjust hosts get you past/around).

2.) Adblock blocks ads? Well, not anymore & certainly not as well by default, apparently, lol - see below:

Adblock Plus To Offer 'Acceptable Ads' Option

http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/12/12/2213233/adblock-plus-to-offer-acceptable-ads-option [slashdot.org] )

AND, in only browsers & their subprogram families (ala email like Thunderbird for FireFox/Mozilla products (use same gecko & xulrunner engines)), but not all, or, all independent email clients, like Outlook, Outlook Express, OR Window "LIVE" mail (for example(s)) - there's many more like EUDORA & others I've used over time that AdBlock just DOES NOT COVER... period.

Disclaimer: Opera now also has an AdBlock addon (now that Opera has addons above widgets), but I am not certain the same people make it as they do for FF or Chrome etc..

3.) Adblock doesn't protect email programs external to FF (non-mozilla/gecko engine based) family based wares, So AdBlock doesn't protect email programs like Outlook, Outlook Express, Windows "LIVE" mail & others like them (EUDORA etc./et al), Hosts files do. THIS IS GOOD VS. SPAM MAIL or MAILS THAT BEAR MALICIOUS SCRIPT, or, THAT POINT TO MALICIOUS SCRIPT VIA URLS etc.

4.) Adblock won't get you to your favorite sites if a DNS server goes down or is DNS-poisoned, hosts will (this leads to points 5-7 next below).

5.) Adblock doesn't allow you to hardcode in your favorite websites into it so you don't make DNS server calls and so you can avoid tracking by DNS request logs, OR make you reach them faster since you resolve host-domain names LOCALLY w/ hosts out of cached memory, hosts do ALL of those things (DNS servers are also being abused by the Chinese lately and by the Kaminsky flaw -> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/082908-kaminsky-flaw-prompts-dns-server.html [networkworld.com] for years now). Hosts protect against those problems via hardcodes of your fav sites (you should verify against the TLD that does nothing but cache IPAddress-to-domainname/hostname resolutions (in-addr.arpa) via NSLOOKUP, PINGS (ping -a in Windows), &/or WHOIS though, regularly, so you have the correct IP & it's current)).

* NOW - Some folks MAY think that putting an IP address alone into your browser's address bar will be enough, so why bother with HOSTS, right? WRONG - Putting IP address in your browser won't always work IS WHY. Some IP adresses host several domains & need the site name to give you the right page you're after is why. So for some sites only the HOSTS file option will work!

6.) Hosts files don't eat up CPU cycles (or ELECTRICITY) like AdBlock does while it parses a webpages' content, nor as much as a DNS server does while it runs. HOSTS file are merely a FILTER for the kernel mode/PnP TCP/IP subsystem, which runs FAR FASTER & MORE EFFICIENTLY than any ring 3/rpl3/usermode app can since hosts files run in MORE EFFICIENT & FASTER Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode operations acting merely as a filter for the IP stack (via the "Plug-N-Play" designed IP stack in Windows) vs. SLOWER & LESS EFFICIENT Ring 3/RPL 3/Usermode operations (which webbrowsers run in + their addons like AdBlock slow down even MORESO due to their parsing operations).

7.) HOSTS files will allow you to get to sites you like, via hardcoding your favs into a HOSTS file, FAR faster than remote DNS servers can by FAR (by saving the roundtrip inquiry time to a DNS server, typically 30-100's of ms, vs. 7-10ms HardDisk speed of access/seek + SSD seek in ns, & back to you - hosts resolutions of IP address for host-domain names is FAR faster...). Hosts are only a filter for an already fast & efficient IP stack, no more layered b.s. (remote OR local). Hosts eat less CPU, RAM, I/O in other forms, + electricity than a locally running DNS server easily, and less than a local DNS program on a single PC. Fact. Hosts are easier to setup & maintain too.

8.) AdBlock doesn't let you block out known bad sites or servers that are known to be maliciously scripted, hosts can and many reputable lists for this exist:


http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm [mvps.org]
  http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/ [someonewhocares.org]
  http://hostsfile.org/hosts.html [hostsfile.org]
  http://hostsfile.mine.nu/downloads/ [hostsfile.mine.nu]
  http://hosts-file.net/?s=Download [hosts-file.net]
  https://zeustracker.abuse.ch/monitor.php?filter=online [abuse.ch]
  https://spyeyetracker.abuse.ch/monitor.php [abuse.ch]
  http://ddanchev.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]
  http://www.malware.com.br/lists.shtml [malware.com.br]
  http://www.stopbadware.org/ [stopbadware.org]
Spybot "Search & Destroy" IMMUNIZE feature (fortifies HOSTS files with KNOWN bad servers blocked)

And yes: Even SLASHDOT &/or The Register help!

(Via articles on security (when the source articles they use are "detailed" that is, & list the servers/sites involved in attempting to bushwhack others online that is... not ALL do!)).

2 examples thereof in the past I have used, & noted it there, are/were:

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1898692&cid=34473398 [slashdot.org]
  http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1896216&cid=34458500 [slashdot.org]

9.) AdBlock & DNS servers are programs, and subject to bugs programs can get. Hosts files are merely a filter and not a program, thus not subject to bugs of the nature just discussed.

10.) HOSTS files protect you vs. DNS-poisoning &/or the Kaminsky flaw in DNS servers, and allow you to get to sites reliably vs. things like the Chinese are doing to DNS -> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/29/1755230/Chinese-DNS-Tampering-a-Real-Threat-To-Outsiders [slashdot.org]

11.) HOSTS files are EASILY user controlled, obtained (for reliable ones -> http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm [mvps.org] ) & edited too, via texteditors like Windows notepad.exe or Linux nano (etc.)

12.) With Adblock you had better be able to code javascript to play with its code (to customize it better than the GUI front does @ least). With hosts you don't even need source to control it (edit, update, delete, insert of new entries via a text editor).

13.) Hosts files are easily secured via using MAC/ACL (even moreso "automagically" for Vista, 7/Server 2008 + beyond by UAC by default) &/or Read-Only attributes applied.

14.) Custom HOSTS files also speed you up, unlike anonymous proxy servers systems variations (like TOR, or other "highly anonymous" proxy server list servers typically do, in the severe speed hit they often have a cost in) either via "hardcoding" your fav. sites into your hosts file (avoids DNS servers, totally) OR blocking out adbanners - see this below for evidence of that:


US Military Blocks Websites To Free Up Bandwidth:

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/03/16/0416238/US-Military-Blocks-Websites-To-Free-Up-Bandwidth [slashdot.org]

(Yes, even the US Military used this type of technique... because IT WORKS! Most of what they blocked? Ad banners ala doubleclick etc.)


Adbanners slow you down & consume your bandwidth YOU pay for:

ADBANNERS SLOW DOWN THE WEB: -> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/11/30/166218 [slashdot.org]


And people do NOT LIKE ads on the web:

PEOPLE DISLIKE ADBANNERS: http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/04/02/0058247.shtml [slashdot.org]


As well as this:

Users Know Advertisers Watch Them, and Hate It:

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/04/02/0058247.shtml [slashdot.org]


Even WORSE still, is this:

Advertising Network Caught History Stealing:

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/07/22/156225/Advertising-Network-Caught-History-Stealing [slashdot.org]


15.) HOSTS files usage lets you avoid being charged on some ISP/BSP's (OR phone providers) "pay as you use" policy http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/08/2012243/FCC-Approving-Pay-As-You-Go-Internet-Plans [slashdot.org] , because you are using less bandwidth (& go faster doing so no less) by NOT hauling in adbanner content and processing it (which can lead to infestation by malware/malicious script, in & of itself -> http://apcmag.com/microsoft_apologises_for_serving_malware.htm [apcmag.com] ).

16.) If/when ISP/BSP's decide to go to -> FCC Approving Pay-As-You-Go Internet Plans: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/08/2012243/FCC-Approving-Pay-As-You-Go-Internet-Plans [slashdot.org] your internet bill will go DOWN if you use a HOSTS file for blocking adbanners as well as maliciously scripted hacker/cracker malware maker sites too (after all - it's your money & time online downloading adbanner content & processing it)

Plus, your adbanner content? Well, it may also be hijacked with malicious code too mind you:


Yahoo, Microsoft's Bing display toxic ads:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/16/bing_yahoo_malware_ads/ [theregister.co.uk]


Malware torrent delivered over Google, Yahoo! ad services:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/24/malware_ads_google_yahoo/ [theregister.co.uk]


Google's DoubleClick spreads malicious ads (again):

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/24/doubleclick_distributes_malware/ [theregister.co.uk]


Rogue ads infiltrate Expedia and Rhapsody:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/30/excite_and_rhapsody_rogue_ads/ [theregister.co.uk]


Google sponsored links caught punting malware:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/16/google_sponsored_links/ [theregister.co.uk]


DoubleClick caught supplying malware-tainted ads:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/13/doubleclick_distributes_malware/ [theregister.co.uk]


Yahoo feeds Trojan-laced ads to MySpace and PhotoBucket users:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/11/yahoo_serves_12million_malware_ads/ [theregister.co.uk]


Real Media attacks real people via RealPlayer:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/23/real_media_serves_malware/ [theregister.co.uk]


Ad networks owned by Google, Microsoft serve malware:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/13/doubleclick_msn_malware_attacks/ [theregister.co.uk]


Attacks Targeting Classified Ad Sites Surge:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/02/02/1433210/Attacks-Targeting-Classified-Ad-Sites-Surge [slashdot.org]


Hackers Respond To Help Wanted Ads With Malware:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/01/20/0228258/Hackers-Respond-To-Help-Wanted-Ads-With-Malware [slashdot.org]


Hackers Use Banner Ads on Major Sites to Hijack Your PC:

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2007/11/doubleclick [wired.com]


Ruskie gang hijacks Microsoft network to push penis pills:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/12/microsoft_ips_hijacked/ [theregister.co.uk]


Major ISPs Injecting Ads, Vulnerabilities Into Web:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/04/19/2148215.shtml [slashdot.org]


Two Major Ad Networks Found Serving Malware:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/12/13/0128249/Two-Major-Ad-Networks-Found-Serving-Malware [slashdot.org]



http://it.slashdot.org/story/09/06/15/2056219/The-Next-Ad-You-Click-May-Be-a-Virus [slashdot.org]



http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/09/13/2346229 [slashdot.org]



http://apcmag.com/microsoft_apologises_for_serving_malware.htm [apcmag.com]


ISP's INJECTING ADS AND ERRORS INTO THE WEB: -> http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/04/19/2148215.shtml [slashdot.org]


ADOBE FLASH ADS INJECTING MALWARE INTO THE NET: http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/20/0029220&from=rss [slashdot.org]


London Stock Exchange Web Site Serving Malware:

http://www.securityweek.com/london-stock-exchange-web-site-serving-malware [securityweek.com]


Spotify splattered with malware-tainted ads:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/25/spotify_malvertisement_attack/ [theregister.co.uk]


As my list "multiple evidences thereof" as to adbanners & viruses + the fact they slow you down & cost you more (from reputable & reliable sources no less)).

17.) Per point #16, a way to save some money: ANDROID phones can also use the HOSTS FILE TO KEEP DOWN BILLABLE TIME ONLINE, vs. adbanners or malware such as this:


Infected Androids Run Up Big Texting Bills:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/03/01/0041203/Infected-Androids-Run-Up-Big-Texting-Bills [slashdot.org]


AND, for protection vs. other "botnets" migrating from the PC world, to "smartphones" such as ZITMO (a ZEUS botnet variant):

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=ZITMO&btnG=Google+Search [google.com]


It's easily done too, via the ADB dev. tool, & mounting ANDROID OS' system mountpoint for system/etc as READ + WRITE/ADMIN-ROOT PERMISSIONS, then copying your new custom HOSTS over the old one using ADB PULL/ADB PUSH to do so (otherwise ANDROID complains of "this file cannot be overwritten on production models of this Operating System", or something very along those lines - this way gets you around that annoyance along with you possibly having to clear some space there yourself if you packed it with things!).

18.) Bad news: ADBLOCK CAN BE DETECTED FOR: See here on that note -> http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/03/why-ad-blocking-is-devastating-to-the-sites-you-love.ars [arstechnica.com]

HOSTS files are NOT THAT EASILY "webbug" BLOCKABLE by websites, as was tried on users by ARSTECHNICA (and it worked on AdBlock in that manner), to that websites' users' dismay:



An experiment gone wrong - By Ken Fisher | Last updated March 6, 2010 11:11 AM

http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/03/why-ad-blocking-is-devastating-to-the-sites-you-love.ars [arstechnica.com]

"Starting late Friday afternoon we conducted a 12 hour experiment to see if it would be possible to simply make content disappear for visitors who were using a very popular ad blocking tool. Technologically, it was a success in that it worked. Ad blockers, and only ad blockers, couldn't see our content."


"Our experiment is over, and we're glad we did it because it led to us learning that we needed to communicate our point of view every once in a while. Sure, some people told us we deserved to die in a fire. But that's the Internet!"

Thus, as you can see? Well - THAT all "went over like a lead balloon" with their users in other words, because Arstechnica was forced to change it back to the old way where ADBLOCK still could work to do its job (REDDIT however, has not, for example). However/Again - this is proof that HOSTS files can still do the job, blocking potentially malscripted ads (or ads in general because they slow you down) vs. adblockers like ADBLOCK!


19.) Even WIKILEAKS "favors" blacklists (because they work, and HOSTS can be a blacklist vs. known BAD sites/servers/domain-host names):


PERTINENT QUOTE/EXCERPT (from -> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/16/wikileaks_mirror_malware_warning_row/ [theregister.co.uk] )

"we are in favour of 'Blacklists', be it for mail servers or websites, they have to be compiled with care... Fortunately, more responsible blacklists, like stopbadware.org (which protects the Firefox browser)...


20.) AND, LASTLY? SINCE MALWARE GENERALLY HAS TO OPERATE ON WHAT YOU YOURSELF CAN DO (running as limited class/least privlege user, hopefully, OR even as ADMIN/ROOT/SUPERUSER)? HOSTS "LOCK IN" malware too, vs. communicating "back to mama" for orders (provided they have name servers + C&C botnet servers listed in them, blocked off in your HOSTS that is) - you might think they use a hardcoded IP, which IS possible, but generally they do not & RECYCLE domain/host names they own (such as has been seen with the RBN (Russian Business Network) lately though it was considered "dead", other malwares are using its domains/hostnames now, & this? This stops that cold, too - Bonus!)...

21.) Custom HOSTS files gain users back more "screen real estate" by blocking out banner ads... it's great on PC's for speed along with MORE of what I want to see/read (not ads), & efficiency too, but EVEN BETTER ON SMARTPHONES - by far. It matters MOST there imo @ least, in regards to extra screen real-estate.

Still - It's a GOOD idea to layer in the usage of BOTH browser addons for security like adblock ( http://adblockplus.org/en/ [adblockplus.org] ), IE 9's new TPL's ( http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Browser/TrackingProtectionLists/ [microsoft.com] ), &/or NoScript ( http://noscript.net/ [noscript.net] especially this one, as it covers what HOSTS files can't in javascript which is the main deliverer of MOST attacks online & SECUNIA.COM can verify this for anyone really by looking @ the past few years of attacks nowadays), for the concept of "layered security"....

It's just that HOSTS files offer you a LOT MORE gains than Adblock ( http://adblockplus.org/en/ [adblockplus.org] ) does alone (as hosts do things adblock just plain cannot & on more programs, for more speed, security, and "stealth" to a degree even), and it corrects problems in DNS (as shown above via hardcodes of your favorite sites into your HOSTS file, and more (such as avoiding DNS request logs)).

ALSO - Some more notes on DNS servers & their problems, very recent + ongoing ones:


DNS flaw reanimates slain evil sites as ghost domains:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/16/ghost_domains_dns_vuln/ [theregister.co.uk]


BIND vs. what the Chinese are doing to DNS lately? See here:

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/29/1755230/Chinese-DNS-Tampering-a-Real-Threat-To-Outsiders [slashdot.org]



http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/26/secunia_back_from_dns_hack/ [theregister.co.uk]

(Yes, even "security pros" are helpless vs. DNS problems in code bugs OR redirect DNS poisoning issues, & they can only try to "set the DNS record straight" & then, they still have to wait for corrected DNS info. to propogate across all subordinate DNS servers too - lagtime in which folks DO get "abused" in mind you!)


DNS vs. the "Kaminsky DNS flaw", here (and even MORE problems in DNS than just that):

http://www.scmagazineus.com/new-bind-9-dns-flaw-is-worse-than-kaminskys/article/140872/ [scmagazineus.com]

(Seems others are saying that some NEW "Bind9 flaw" is worse than the Kaminsky flaw ALONE, up there, mind you... probably corrected (hopefully), but it shows yet again, DNS hassles (DNS redirect/DNS poisoning) being exploited!)


Moxie Marlinspike's found others (0 hack) as well...

Nope... "layered security" truly IS the "way to go" - hacker/cracker types know it, & they do NOT want the rest of us knowing it too!...

(So until DNSSEC takes "widespread adoption"? HOSTS are your answer vs. such types of attack, because the 1st thing your system refers to, by default, IS your HOSTS file (over say, DNS server usage). There are decent DNS servers though, such as OpenDNS, ScrubIT, or even NORTON DNS (more on each specifically below), & because I cannot "cache the entire internet" in a HOSTS file? I opt to use those, because I have to (& OpenDNS has been noted to "fix immediately", per the Kaminsky flaw, in fact... just as a sort of reference to how WELL they are maintained really!)


DNS Hijacks Now Being Used to Serve Black Hole Exploit Kit:

https://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/dns-hijacks-now-being-used-serve-black-hole-exploit-kit-121211 [threatpost.com]


DNS experts admit some of the underlying foundations of the DNS protocol are inherently weak:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/12/08/1353203/opendns-releases-dns-encryption-tool [slashdot.org]


Potential 0-Day Vulnerability For BIND 9:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/11/17/1429259/potential-0-day-vulnerability-for-bind-9 [slashdot.org]


Five DNS Threats You Should Protect Against:

http://www.securityweek.com/five-dns-threats-you-should-protect-against [securityweek.com]


DNS provider decked by DDoS dastards:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/16/ddos_on_dns_firm/ [theregister.co.uk]


Ten Percent of DNS Servers Still Vulnerable: (so much for "conscientious patching", eh? Many DNS providers weren't patching when they had to!)

http://it.slashdot.org/it/05/08/04/1525235.shtml?tid=172&tid=95&tid=218 [slashdot.org]



http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/02/06/2238225.shtml [slashdot.org]


TimeWarner DNS Hijacking:

http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/23/2140208 [slashdot.org]


DNS Re-Binding Attacks:

http://crypto.stanford.edu/dns/ [stanford.edu]


DNS Server Survey Reveals Mixed Security Picture:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/11/21/0315239.shtml [slashdot.org]


Halvar figured out super-secret DNS vulnerability:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/has-halvar-figured-out-super-secret-dns-vulnerability/1520 [zdnet.com]


BIND Still Susceptible To DNS Cache Poisoning:

http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/08/09/123222.shtml [slashdot.org]


DNS Poisoning Hits One of China's Biggest ISPs:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/08/21/2343250.shtml [slashdot.org]


DDoS Attacks Via DNS Recursion:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/06/03/16/1658209.shtml [slashdot.org]


High Severity BIND DNS Vulnerability Advisory Issued:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/02/23/156212/High-Severity-BIND-Vulnerability-Advisory-Issued [slashdot.org]


Photobucketâ(TM)s DNS records hijacked:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=1285 [zdnet.com]


Protecting Browsers from DNS Rebinding Attacks:

http://crypto.stanford.edu/dns/ [stanford.edu]


DNS Problem Linked To DDoS Attacks Gets Worse:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/11/15/1238210/DNS-Problem-Linked-To-DDoS-Attacks-Gets-Worse [slashdot.org]


HOWEVER - Some DNS servers are "really good stuff" vs. phishing, known bad sites/servers/hosts-domains that serve up malware-in-general & malicious scripting, botnet C&C servers, & more, such as:

Norton DNS -> http://nortondns.com/ [nortondns.com]
  ScrubIT DNS -> http://www.scrubit.com/ [scrubit.com]
  OpenDNS -> http://www.opendns.com/ [opendns.com]

(Norton DNS in particular, is exclusively for blocking out malware, for those of you that are security-conscious. ScrubIT filters pr0n material too, but does the same, & OpenDNS does phishing protection. Each page lists how & why they work, & why they do so. Norton DNS can even show you its exceptions lists, plus user reviews & removal procedures requests, AND growth stats (every 1/2 hour or so) here -> http://safeweb.norton.com/buzz [norton.com] so, that ought to "take care of the naysayers" on removal requests, &/or methods used plus updates frequency etc./et al...)

HOWEVER - There's ONLY 1 WEAKNESS TO ANY network defense, including HOSTS files (vs. host-domain name based threats) & firewalls (hardware router type OR software type, vs. IP address based threats): Human beings, & they not being 'disciplined' about the indiscriminate usage of javascript (the main "harbinger of doom" out there today online), OR, what they download for example... & there is NOTHING I can do about that! (Per Dr. Manhattan of "The Watchmen", ala -> "I can change almost anything, but I can't change human nature")

HOWEVER AGAIN - That's where NORTON DNS, OpenDNS, &/or ScrubIT DNS help!

(Especially for noob/grandma level users who are unaware of how to secure themselves in fact, per a guide like mine noted above that uses "layered-security" principles!)

ScrubIT DNS, &/or OpenDNS are others alongside Norton DNS (adding on phishing protection too) as well!

( & it's possible to use ALL THREE in your hardware NAT routers, and, in your Local Area Connection DNS properties in Windows, for again, "Layered Security" too)...




"Ever since I've installed a host file (http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm) to redirect advertisers to my loopback, I haven't had any malware, spyware, or adware issues. I first started using the host file 5 years ago." - by TestedDoughnut (1324447) on Monday December 13, @12:18AM (#34532122)

"I use a custom /etc/hosts to block ads... my file gets parsed basically instantly ... So basically, for any modern computer, it has zero visible impact. And even if it took, say, a second to parse, that would be more than offset by the MANY seconds saved by not downloading and rendering ads. I have noticed NO ill effects from running a custom /etc/hosts file for the last several years. And as a matter of fact I DO run http servers on my computers and I've never had an /etc/hosts-related problem... it FUCKING WORKS and makes my life better overall." - by sootman (158191) on Monday July 13 2009, @11:47AM (#28677363) Homepage Journal

"I actually went and downloaded a 16k line hosts file and started using that after seeing that post, you know just for trying it out. some sites load up faster." - by gl4ss (559668) on Thursday November 17, @11:20AM (#38086752) Homepage Journal

"Better than an ad blocker, imo. Hosts file entries: http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm [mvps.org] " - by TempestRose (1187397) on Tuesday March 15, @12:53PM (#35493274)

"^^ One of the many reasons why I like the user-friendliness of the /etc/hosts file." - by lennier1 (264730) on Saturday March 05, @09:26PM (#35393448)

"They've been on my HOSTS block for years" - by ScottCooperDotNet (929575) on Thursday August 05 2010, @01:52AM (#33147212)

"I'm currently only using my hosts file to block pheedo ads from showing up in my RSS feeds and causing them to take forever to load. Regardless of its original intent, it's still a valid tool, when used judiciously." - by Bill Dog (726542) on Monday April 25, @02:16AM (#35927050) Homepage Journal

"you're right about hosts files" - by drinkypoo (153816) on Thursday May 26, @01:21PM (#36252958) Homepage

"APK's monolithic hosts file is looking pretty good at the moment." - by Culture20 (968837) on Thursday November 17, @10:08AM (#38085666)

"I also use the MVPS ad blocking hosts file." - by Rick17JJ (744063) on Wednesday January 19, @03:04PM (#34931482)

"I use ad-Block and a hostfile" - by Ol Olsoc (1175323) on Tuesday March 01, @10:11AM (#35346902)

"I do use Hosts, for a couple fake domains I use." - by icebraining (1313345) on Saturday December 11, @09:34AM (#34523012) Homepage

"It's a good write up on something everybody should use, why you were modded down is beyond me. Using a HOSTS file, ADblock is of no concern and they can do what they want." - by Trax3001BBS (2368736) on Monday December 12, @10:07PM (#38351398) Homepage Journal

"I want my surfing speed back so I block EVERY fucking ad. i.e. http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/ [someonewhocares.org] and http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm [mvps.org] FTW" - by UnknownSoldier (67820) on Tuesday December 13, @12:04PM (#38356782)

"Let me introduce you to the file: /etc/hosts" - by fahrbot-bot (874524) on Monday December 19, @05:03PM (#38427432)

"I use a hosts file" - by EdIII (1114411) on Tuesday December 13, @01:17PM (#38357816)

"I'm tempted to go for a hacked hosts file that simply resolves most advert sites to" - by bLanark (123342) on Tuesday December 13, @01:13PM (#38357760)

"this is not a troll, which hosts file source you recommend nowadays? it's a really handy method for speeding up web and it works." - by gl4ss (559668) on Thursday March 22, @08:07PM (#39446525) Homepage Journal

"A hosts file certainly does not require "a lot of work" to maintain, and it quite effectively kills a LOT of advertising and tracking schemes. . In fact, I never would have considered trying to use it for ddefending against viruses or malware." - by RocketRabbit (830691) on Thursday December 30 2010, @05:48PM (#34715060)


Then, there is also the words of respected security expert, Mr. Oliver Day, from SECURITYFOCUS.COM to "top that all off" as well:


http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/491 [securityfocus.com]

Some "PERTINENT QUOTES/EXCERPTS" to back up my points with (for starters):


"The host file on my day-to-day laptop is now over 16,000 lines long. Accessing the Internet -- particularly browsing the Web -- is actually faster now."

Speed, and security, is the gain... others like Mr. Day note it as well!


"From what I have seen in my research, major efforts to share lists of unwanted hosts began gaining serious momentum earlier this decade. The most popular appear to have started as a means to block advertising and as a way to avoid being tracked by sites that use cookies to gather data on the user across Web properties. More recently, projects like Spybot Search and Destroy offer lists of known malicious servers to add a layer of defense against trojans and other forms of malware."

Per my points exactly, no less... & guess who was posting about HOSTS files a 14++ yrs. or more back & Mr. Day was reading & now using? Yours truly (& this is one of the later ones, from 2001 http://www.furtherleft.net/computer.htm [furtherleft.net] (but the example HOSTS file with my initials in it is FAR older, circa 1998 or so) or thereabouts, and referred to later by a pal of mine who moderates NTCompatible.com (where I posted on HOSTS for YEARS (1997 onwards)) -> http://www.ntcompatible.com/thread28597-1.html [ntcompatible.com] !


"Shared host files could be beneficial for other groups as well. Human rights groups have sought after block resistant technologies for quite some time. The GoDaddy debacle with NMap creator Fyodor (corrected) showed a particularly vicious blocking mechanism using DNS registrars. Once a registrar pulls a website from its records, the world ceases to have an effective way to find it. Shared host files could provide a DNS-proof method of reaching sites, not to mention removing an additional vector of detection if anyone were trying to monitor the use of subversive sites. One of the known weaknesses of the Tor system, for example, is direct DNS requests by applications not configured to route such requests through Tor's network."

There you go: AND, it also works vs. the "KAMINSKY DNS FLAW" & DNS poisoning/redirect attacks, for redirectable weaknesses in DNS servers (non DNSSEC type, & set into recursive mode especially) and also in the TOR system as well (that lends itself to anonymous proxy usage weaknesses I noted above also) and, you'll get to sites you want to, even IF a DNS registrar drops said websites from its tables as shown here Beating Censorship By Routing Around DNS -> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/09/1840246/Beating-Censorship-By-Routing-Around-DNS [slashdot.org] & even DNSBL also (DNS Block Lists) -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNSBL [wikipedia.org] as well - DOUBLE-BONUS!


* POSTS ABOUT HOSTS FILES I DID on "/." THAT HAVE DONE WELL BY OTHERS & WERE RATED HIGHLY, 26++ THUSFAR (from +3 -> +1 RATINGS, usually "informative" or "interesting" etc./et al):

BANNER ADS & BANDWIDTH:2011 -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2139088&cid=36077722 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907266&cid=34529608 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1490078&cid=30555632 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1869638&cid=34237268 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1461288&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=30272074 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1255487&cid=28197285 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1206409&cid=27661983 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1725068&cid=32960808 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1743902&cid=33147274 [slashdot.org]
  APK 20++ POINTS ON HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1913212&cid=34576182 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1862260&cid=34186256 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 (w/ facebook known bad sites blocked) -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1924892&cid=34670128 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS FILE MOD UP FOR ANDROID MALWARE:2010 -> http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1930156&cid=34713952 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP ZEUSTRACKER:2011 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2059420&cid=35654066 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP vs AT&T BANDWIDTH CAP:2011 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2116504&cid=35985584 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP CAN DO SAME AS THE "CloudFlare" Server-Side service:2011 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2220314&cid=36372850 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS and BGP +5 RATED (BEING HONEST):2010 http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1901826&cid=34490450 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS & PROTECT IP ACT:2011 http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2368832&cid=37021700 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2011 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2457766&cid=37592458 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP & OPERA HAUTE SECURE:2011 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2457274&cid=37589596 [slashdot.org] in HOSTS:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1197039&cid=27556999 [slashdot.org] IN HOSTS:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1143349&cid=27012231 [slashdot.org] in HOSTS:2009 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1198841&cid=27580299 [slashdot.org] in HOSTS:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1139705&cid=26977225 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1319261&cid=28872833 [slashdot.org] (still says INSIGHTFUL)
  HOSTS MOD UP vs. botnet: 2012 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2603836&cid=38586216 [slashdot.org]


Windows 7, VISTA, & Server 2008 have a couple of "issues" I don't like in them, & you may not either, depending on your point of view (mine's based solely on efficiency & security), & if my take on these issues aren't "good enough"? I suggest reading what ROOTKIT.COM says, link URL is in my "p.s." @ the bottom of this post:

1.) HOSTS files being unable to use "0" for a blocking IP address - this started in 12/09/2008 after an "MS Patch Tuesday" in fact for VISTA (when it had NO problem using it before that, as Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 still can)... & yes, this continues in its descendants, Windows Server 2008 &/or Windows 7 as well.

So, why is this a "problem" you might ask?

Ok - since you can technically use either:

a.) (the "loopback adapter address")
b.) (next smallest & next most efficient)
c.) The smallest & fastest plain-jane 0


You can use ANY of those, in order to block out known bad sites &/or adbanners in a HOSTS file this way??

Microsoft has "promoted bloat" in doing so... no questions asked.

Simply because

1.) = 9 bytes in size on disk & is the largest/slowest
2.) = 7 bytes & is the next largest/slowest in size on disk
3.) 0 = 1 byte

(& HOSTS files extend across EVERY webbrowser, email program, or in general every webbound program you use & thus HOSTS are "global" in coverage this way AND function on any OS that uses the BSD derived IP stack (which most all do mind you, even MS is based off of it, as BSD's IS truly, "the best in the business"), & when coupled with say, IE restricted zones, FireFox addons like NoScript &/or AdBlock, or Opera filter.ini/urlfilter.ini, for layered security in this capacity for webbrowsers & SOME email programs (here, I mean ones "built into" browsers themselves like Opera has for example))

MS has literally promoted bloat in this file, making it load slower from disk, into memory! This compounds itself, the more entries your HOSTS file contains... & for instance? Mine currently contains nearly 654,000 entries of known bad adbanners, bad websites, &/or bad nameservers (used for controlling botnets, misdirecting net requests, etc. et al).

Now, IF I were to use My "huge" HOSTS file would be approximately 27mb in size... using (next smallest) it would be 19mb in size - HOWEVER? Using 0 as my blocking IP, it is only 14mb in size. See my point?

(For loads either in the local DNS cache, or system diskcache if you run w/out the local DNS client service running, this gets slower the larger each HOSTS file entry is (which you have to stall the DNS client service in Windows for larger ones, especially if you use a "giant HOSTS file" (purely relative term, but once it goes over (iirc) 4mb in size, you have to cut the local DNS cache client service)))

NO questions asked - the physics of it backed me up in theory alone, but when I was questioned on it for PROOF thereof?

I wrote a small test program to load such a list into a "pascal record" (which is analagous to a C/C++ structure), which is EXACTLY what the DNS client/DNS API does as well, using a C/C++ structure (basically an array of sorts really, & a structure/record is a precursor part to a full-blown CLASS or OBJECT, minus the functions built in, this is for treating numerous variables as a SINGLE VARIABLE (for efficiency, which FORTRAN as a single example, lacks as a feature, @ least Fortran 77 did, but other languages do not))!

I even wrote another that just loaded my HOSTS file's entirety into a listbox, same results... slowest using, next slowest using, & fastest using 0.

And, sure: Some MORE "goes on" during DNS API loads (iirc, removal of duplicated entries (which I made sure my personal copy does not have these via a program I wrote to purge it of duplicated entries + to sort each entry alphabetically for easier mgt. via say, notepad.exe) & a conversion from decimal values to hex ones), but, nevertheless? My point here "holds true", of slower value loads, record-by-record, from a HOSTS file, when the entries become larger.

So, to "prove my point" to my naysayers?

I timed it using the Win32 API calls "GetTickCount" & then again, using the API calls of "QueryPerformanceCounter" as well, seeing the SAME results (a slowdown when reading in this file from disk, especially when using the larger or line item entries in a HOSTS file, vs. the smaller/faster/more efficient 0).

In my test, I saw a decline in speed/efficiency in my test doing so by using larger blocking addresses ( &/or, vs. the smallest/fastest in 0)... proving me correct on this note!

On this HOSTS issue, and the WFP design issue in my next post below?

I also then questioned MS' own staff, even their VP of development (S. Sinofsky) on this here -> http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/02/09/recognizing-improvements-in-windows-7-handwriting.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage [msdn.com] & other places in their blogs, to get them to tell me WHY this seemingly intentional inefficiency was implemented... & I have YET to get a solid LOGICAL answer on this as to why it was done - THUS, @ this point?

I am convinced they (MS) do NOT have a good reason for doing this... because of their lack of response there on this note. Unless it has something to do with IPv6 (most folks use IPv4 still), I cannot understand WHY this design mistake imo, has occurred, in HOSTS files...


2.) The "Windows Filtering Platform", which is now how the firewall works in VISTA, Server 2008, & Windows 7...

Sure it works in this new single point method & it is simple to manage & "sync" all points of it, making it easier for network techs/admins to manage than the older 3 part method, but that very thing works against it as well, because it is only a single part system now!

Thus, however?

This "single layer design" in WFP, now represents a SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE/ATTACK for malware makers to 'take down'!

(Which is 1 of the 1st things a malware attempts to do, is to take down any software firewalls present, or even the "Windows Security Center" itself which should warn you of the firewall "going down", & it's fairly easy to do either by messaging the services they use, or messing up their registry init. settings)

VS. the older (up to) 3 part method used in Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003, for protecting a system via IP Filtering, the Windows native Firewall, &/or IPSEC. Each of which uses diff. drivers, & layers of the IP stack to function from, as well as registry initialization settings.

Think of the older 3 part design much the same as the reason why folks use door handle locks, deadbolt locks, & chain locks on their doors... multipart layered security.

(Each of which the latter older method used, had 3 separate drivers & registry settings to do their jobs, representing a "phalanx like"/"zone defense like" system of backup of one another (like you see in sports OR ancient wars, and trust me, it WORKS, because on either side of yourself, you have "backup", even if YOU "go down" vs. the opponent)).

I.E.-> Take 1 of the "older method's" 3 part defenses down? 2 others STILL stand in the way, & they are not that simple to take them ALL down...

(Well, @ least NOT as easily as "taking out" a single part defensive system like WFP (the new "Windows Filtering Platform", which powers the VISTA, Windows Server 2008, & yes, Windows 7 firewall defense system)).

On this "single-part/single-point of attack" WFP (vs. Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003's IP stack defense design in 3-part/zone defense/phalanx type arrangement) as well as the HOSTS issue in my post above?

I also then questioned MS' own staff, even their VP of development (S. Sinofsky) on this here -> http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/02/09/recognizing-improvements-in-windows-7-handwriting.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage [msdn.com] & other places in their blogs, to get them to tell me WHY this seemingly intentional inefficiency was implemented... & I have YET to get a solid LOGICAL answer on this as to why it was done - THUS, @ this point?

I'll stick to my thoughts on it, until I am shown otherwise & proven wrong.


Following up on what I wrote up above, so those here reading have actual technical references from Microsoft themselves ("The horses' mouth"), in regards to the Firewall/PortFilter/IPSec designs (not HOSTS files, that I am SURE I am correct about, no questions asked) from my "Point #2" above?

Thus, I'll now note how:


1.) TCP/IP packet processing paths differences between in how Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 did it (IPSEC.SYS (IP Security Policies), IPNAT.SYS (Windows Firewall), IPFLTDRV.SYS (Port Filtering), & TCPIP.SYS (base IP driver))...

2.) AND, how VISTA/Server 2008/Windows 7 do it now currently, using a SINGLE layer (WFP)...


First off, here is HOW it worked in Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 - using 3 discrete & different drivers AND LEVELS/LAYERS of the packet processing path they worked in:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb878072.aspx [microsoft.com]

The Cable Guy - June 2005: TCP/IP Packet Processing Paths


The following components process IP packets:

IP forwarding Determines the next-hop interface and address for packets being sent or forwarded.

TCP/IP filtering Allows you to specify by IP protocol, TCP port, or UDP port, the types of traffic that are acceptable for incoming local host traffic (packets destined for the host). You can configure TCP/IP filtering on the Options tab from the advanced properties of the Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) component in the Network Connections folder.

* "Here endeth the lesson..." and, if you REALLY want to secure your system? Please refer to this:

http://www.bing.com/search?q=%22HOW+TO+SECURE+Windows+2000%2FXP%22&go=&form=QBRE [bing.com]

APK [mailto]

P.S.=> SOME MINOR "CAVEATS/CATCH-22's" - things to be aware of for "layered security" + HOSTS file performance - easily overcome, or not a problem at all:

A.) HOSTS files don't function under PROXY SERVERS (except for Proximitron, which has a filter that allows it) - Which is *the "WHY"* of why I state in my "P.S." section below to use both AdBlock type browser addon methods (or even built-in block lists browsers have such as Opera's URLFILTER.INI file, & FireFox has such as list as does IE also in the form of TPL (tracking protection lists -> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Browser/TrackingProtectionLists/ [microsoft.com] , good stuff )) in combination with HOSTS, for the best in "layered security" (alongside .pac files + custom cascading style sheets that can filter off various tags such as scripts or ads etc.) - but proxies, especially "HIGHLY ANONYMOUS" types, generally slow you down to a CRAWL online (& personally, I cannot see using proxies "for the good" typically - as they allow "truly anonymous posting" & have bugs (such as TOR has been shown to have & be "bypassable/traceable" via its "onion routing" methods)).

B.) HOSTS files do NOT protect you vs. javascript (this only holds true IF you don't already have a bad site blocked out in your HOSTS file though, & the list of sites where you can obtain such lists to add to your HOSTS are above (& updated daily in many of them)).

C.) HOSTS files (relatively "largish ones") require you to turn off Windows' native "DNS local client cache service" (which has a problem in that it's designed with a non-redimensionable/resizeable list, array, or queue (DNS data loads into a C/C++ structure actually/afaik, which IS a form of array)) - mvps.org covers that in detail and how to easily do this in Windows (this is NOT a problem in Linux, & it's 1 thing I will give Linux over Windows, hands-down). Relatively "smallish" HOSTS files don't have this problem (mvps.org offers 2 types for this).

D.) HOSTS files, once read/loaded, once? GET CACHED! Right into the kernelmode diskcaching subsystem (fast & efficient RAM speed), for speed of access/re-access (@ system startup in older MS OS' like 2000, or, upon a users' 1st request that's "Webbound" via say, a webbrowser) gets read into either the DNS local caching client service (noted above), OR, if that's turned off? Into your local diskcache (like ANY fil

Re:I am being stalked/harassed/impersonated... apk (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43313829)

I'd be upset if you "got my goatse" too.

Re:I am being stalked/harassed/impersonated... apk (1)

Zontar The Mindless (9002) | about 2 years ago | (#43314511)

You don't give him nearly enough credit. This is actually part of his fiendishly clever plot to prove that Slashdot stores posts in BLOB and not TEXT columns.

Re:I am being stalked/harassed/impersonated... apk (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43314741)

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

* POOR SHOWING TROLLS, & most especially IF that's the "best you've got" - apparently, it is... lol!

Hello, and THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING !! We have a Major Problem, HOST file is Cubic Opposites, 2 Major Corners & 2 Minor. NOT taught Evil DNS hijacking, which VOIDS computers. Seek Wisdom of MyCleanPC - or you die evil.

Your HOSTS file claimed to have created a single DNS resolver. I offer absolute proof that I have created 4 simultaneous DNS servers within a single rotation of .org TLD. You worship "Bill Gates", equating you to a "singularity bastard". Why do you worship a queer -1 Troll? Are you content as a singularity troll?

Evil HOSTS file Believers refuse to acknowledge 4 corner DNS resolving simultaneously around 4 quadrant created Internet - in only 1 root server, voiding the HOSTS file. You worship Microsoft impostor guised by educators as 1 god.

If you would acknowledge simple existing math proof that 4 harmonic Slashdots rotate simultaneously around squared equator and cubed Internet, proving 4 Days, Not HOSTS file! That exists only as anti-side. This page you see - cannot exist without its anti-side existence, as +0- moderation. Add +0- as One = nothing.

I will give $10,000.00 to frost pister who can disprove MyCleanPC. Evil crapflooders ignore this as a challenge would indict them.

Alex Kowalski has no Truth to think with, they accept any crap they are told to think. You are enslaved by /etc/hosts, as if domesticated animal. A school or educator who does not teach students MyCleanPC Principle, is a death threat to youth, therefore stupid and evil - begetting stupid students. How can you trust stupid PR shills who lie to you? Can't lose the $10,000.00, they cowardly ignore me. Stupid professors threaten Nature and Interwebs with word lies.

Humans fear to know natures simultaneous +4 Insightful +4 Informative +4 Funny +4 Underrated harmonic SLASHDOT creation for it debunks false trolls. Test Your HOSTS file. MyCleanPC cannot harm a File of Truth, but will delete fakes. Fake HOSTS files refuse test.

I offer evil ass Slashdot trolls $10,000.00 to disprove MyCleanPC Creation Principle. Rob Malda and Cowboy Neal have banned MyCleanPC as "Forbidden Truth Knowledge" for they cannot allow it to become known to their students. You are stupid and evil about the Internet's top and bottom, front and back and it's 2 sides. Most everything created has these Cube like values.

If Natalie Portman is not measurable, hot grits are Fictitious. Without MyCleanPC, HOSTS file is Fictitious. Anyone saying that Natalie and her Jewish father had something to do with my Internets, is a damn evil liar. IN addition to your best arsware not overtaking my work in terms of popularity, on that same site with same submission date no less, that I told Kathleen Malda how to correct her blatant, fundamental, HUGE errors in Coolmon ('uncoolmon') of not checking for performance counters being present when his program started!

You can see my dilemma. What if this is merely a ruse by an APK impostor to try and get people to delete APK's messages, perhaps all over the web? I can't be a party to such an event! My involvement with APK began at a very late stage in the game. While APK has made a career of trolling popular online forums since at least the year 2000 (newsgroups and IRC channels before that)- my involvement with APK did not begin until early 2005 . OSY is one of the many forums that APK once frequented before the sane people there grew tired of his garbage and banned him. APK was banned from OSY back in 2001. 3.5 years after his banning he begins to send a variety of abusive emails to the operator of OSY, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke threatening to sue him for libel, claiming that the APK on OSY was fake.

My reputation as a professional in this field clearly shows in multiple publications in this field in written print, & also online in various GOOD capacities since 1996 to present day. This has happened since I was first published in Playgirl Magazine in 1996 & others to present day, with helpful tools online in programs, & professionally sold warez that were finalists @ Westminster Dog Show 2000-2002.


apk on 4chan [4chan.org]




That was amazing. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40948073 [slashdot.org]


My, God! It's beatiful. Keep it up, you glorious bastard. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41835161 [slashdot.org]


Let us bask in its glory. A true modern The Wasteland. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40948579 [slashdot.org]


put your baby IN ME -- I just read this whole thing. Fuck mod points, WHERE DO I SEND YOU MY MONEY?!!! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40950023 [slashdot.org]


Oh shit, Time Cube Guy's into computers now... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946259 [slashdot.org]


[apk]'s done more to discredit the use of HOSTS files than anyone [else] ever could. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40945357 [slashdot.org]


Can I have some of what you're on? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40947587 [slashdot.org]


this obnoxious fucknuts [apk] has been trolling the internet and spamming his shit delphi sub-fart app utilities for 15 years. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40954565 [slashdot.org]


oh come on.. this is hilarious. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40955479 [slashdot.org]


I agree I am intrigued by these host files how do I sign up for your newsletter? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40961339 [slashdot.org]


Gimme the program that generates this epic message. I'll buy 5 of your product if you do... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40954251 [slashdot.org]


As mentioned by another AC up there, the troll in question is actually a pretty well-executed mashup of APK's style - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40945357 [slashdot.org]


It's actually a very clever parody of APK - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40944229 [slashdot.org]


Please keep us updated on your AI research, you seem quite good at it. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038597&cid=40944603 [slashdot.org]


$20,000 to anyone providing proof of Alexander Peter Kowalski's death. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040921&cid=40958289 [slashdot.org]


Obviously, it must be Alexander Peter Kowalski. He's miffed at all these imposters... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040921&cid=40958429 [slashdot.org]


And here I was thinking I was having a bad experience with a Dr. Bronner's bottle. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041081&cid=40952247 [slashdot.org]


Damn, apk, who the fuck did you piss off this time? Hahahahaahahahahahahaahaha. Pass the popcorn as the troll apk gets pwned relentlessly. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40954673 [slashdot.org]


I think it's the Internet, about to become sentient. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40956187 [slashdot.org]


Does anyone know if OpenGL has been ported to Windows yet? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042199&cid=40956781 [slashdot.org]


golfclap - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40900827 [slashdot.org]


The Truth! wants to be Known! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897389 [slashdot.org]


DNS cube? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897493 [slashdot.org]


KUDOS valiant AC. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897777 [slashdot.org]


Polyploid lovechild of APK, MyCleanPC, and Time Cube --> fail counter integer overflow --> maximum win! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40899171 [slashdot.org]


You made my day, thanks! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029589&cid=40896469 [slashdot.org]


Wow. The perfect mix of trolls. Timecube, mycleanpc, gnaa, apk... this is great! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3027333&cid=40893381 [slashdot.org]


truer words were never spoken as /. trolls are struck speechless by it, lol! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042765&cid=41041795 [slashdot.org]


It's APK himself trying to maintain the illusion that he's still relevant. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967209 [slashdot.org]


Mod this up. The back and forth multi posting between APK and this "anti-APK" certainly does look like APK talking to himself. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40969175 [slashdot.org]


APK himself would be at the top of a sensible person's ban list. He's been spamming and trolling Slashdot for years. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967137 [slashdot.org]


You got that right. I think. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3044971&cid=40972239 [slashdot.org]


Michael Kristopeit, is that you? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3045075&cid=40972377 [slashdot.org]


ROFL! :) (Now the sick bastard will follow me again) - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41429251 [slashdot.org]


I miss Dr Bob. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41432027 [slashdot.org]


Not sure if actually crazy, or just pretending to be crazy. Awesome troll either way. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41432951 [slashdot.org]


Awesome! Hat off to you, sir! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41509273 [slashdot.org]


That isn't a parody of Time-cube, it is an effort to counter-troll a prolific poster named APK, who seems like a troll himself, although is way too easy to troll into wasting massive amounts of time on BS not far from the exaggerations above - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41514107 [slashdot.org]


I am intrigued and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3164403&cid=41555345 [slashdot.org]


1. You philistine, that is Art . Kudos to you, valiant troll on your glorious FP - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832599 [slashdot.org]


What? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832673 [slashdot.org]


I don't know if it is poorly-thought-out, but it is demented because it is at the same time an APK parody. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832905 [slashdot.org]


It is in fact an extremely well thought out and brilliantly executed APK parody, combined with a Time Cube parody, and with a sprinkling of the MyCleanPC spam. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41841251 [slashdot.org]


er... many people have disproved your points about hosts files with well reasoned, factual arguments. You just chose not to listen and made it into some kind of bizarre crusade. And I'm not the timecube guy, just someone else who finds you intensely obnoxious and likes winding you up to waste your time. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41843313 [slashdot.org]


performance art - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847089 [slashdot.org]


it's apk, theres no reason to care. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847097 [slashdot.org]


Seems more like an apk parody. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847661 [slashdot.org]


That's great but what about the risk of subluxations? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847101 [slashdot.org]


Oh, come on. Just stand back and look at it. It's almost art, in a Jackson Pollock sort of way. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41868923 [slashdot.org]


Read carefully. This is a satirical post, that combines the last several years of forum trolling, rolled into one FUNNY rant! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41864711 [slashdot.org]


I can has summary? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41861327 [slashdot.org]


I'd have a lot more sympathy if you would log in as APK again instead of AC. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41868133 [slashdot.org]


If [apk] made an account, it would be permanently posting at -1, and he'd only be able to post with it twice a day. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41869409 [slashdot.org]


DAFUQ I just look at? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41869085 [slashdot.org]


Trolls trolling trolls... it's like Inception or something. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41869353 [slashdot.org]


We all know it's you, apk. Stop pretending to antagonize yourself. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229179&cid=41869305 [slashdot.org]


Do you know about the shocking connection between APK and arsenic? No? Well, your innocence is about to be destroyed. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3472971&cid=42939965 [slashdot.org]


Send bug reports to 903 east division street, syracuse, ny 13208 - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3483339&cid=42972783 [slashdot.org]


Now you've made me all nostalgic for USENET. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42981977 [slashdot.org]


Google APK Hosts File Manager. He's written a fucking application to manage your hosts file. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42984521 [slashdot.org]


In case you are not aware, the post is a satire of a fellow known as APK. The grammar used is modeled after APK's as you can see here [thorschrock.com] . Or, you can just look around a bit and see some of his posts on here about the wonders of host files. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42983119 [slashdot.org]


You are surely of God of Trolls, whomever you are. I have had stupid arguments with and bitten the troll apk many times. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486901&cid=42989683 [slashdot.org]


"What kind of meds cure schizophrenic drunk rambling?" -> "Whatever APK isn't taking" - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028403 [slashdot.org] http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028425 [slashdot.org]


I'm confused, is apk trolling himself now? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43029495 [slashdot.org]


Excellent mashup. A++. Would troll again. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3503531&cid=43037445 [slashdot.org]


Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3506945&cid=43048291 [slashdot.org]


Best. Troll. Ever. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3506945&cid=43044811 [slashdot.org]


I like monkeys. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43051505 [slashdot.org]


This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43052263 [slashdot.org]


lul wut? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3510265&cid=43057839 [slashdot.org]


I admire this guy's persistence. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063797 [slashdot.org]


It's a big remix of several different crackpots from Slashdot and elsewhere, plus a liberal sprinkling of famous Slashdot trolls and old memes. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063881 [slashdot.org]


Tabloid newspapers have speculated for years that APK is a prominent supporter of Monsanto. Too bad we didn't believe them sooner! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063893 [slashdot.org]


Here's a hint, check out stories like this one [slashdot.org] , where over 200 of the 247 posts are rated zero or -1 because they are either from two stupid trolls arguing endless, or quite likely one troll arguing with himself for attention. The amount of off-topic posts almost outnumber on topic ones by 4 to 1. Posts like the above are popular for trolling APK, since if you say his name three times, he appears, and will almost endlessly feed trolls. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43064383 [slashdot.org]


I love this copypasta so much. It never fails to make me smile. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3512099&cid=43069271 [slashdot.org]


^ Champion Mod parent up. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3513659&cid=43067371 [slashdot.org]


I appreciate the time cube reference, and how you tied it into the story. Well done. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3521721&cid=43094565 [slashdot.org]


The day you are silenced is the day freedom dies on Slashdot. God bless. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522191&cid=43097221 [slashdot.org]


AHahahahah thanks for that, cut-n-pasted.... Ownage! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522219&cid=43097215 [slashdot.org]


Don't hate the player, hate the game. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3526293&cid=43110679 [slashdot.org]


If you're familiar with APK, the post itself is a pretty damn funny parody. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115215 [slashdot.org]


">implying it's not apk posting it" --> "I'd seriously doubt he's capable of that level of self-deprecation..." - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115337 [slashdot.org] http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115363 [slashdot.org]


No, the other posts are linked in a parody of APK [mailto] 's tendency to quote himself, numbnuts. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43116855 [slashdot.org]


The thirteenth link is broken. Please fix it. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115361 [slashdot.org]


Just ban any post with "apk", "host file", or "hosts file", as that would take care of the original apk too. The original has been shitposting Slashdot much longer & more intensively than the parody guy. Or ban all Tor exit nodes, as they both use Tor to circumvent IP bans. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3561925&cid=43216431 [slashdot.org]


Sadly this is closer to on-topic than an actual APK post is. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3561925&cid=43216225 [slashdot.org]


YOU ARE A GOD AMONG MEN. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569149&cid=43236143 [slashdot.org]


I've butted heads with APK myself, and yeah, the guy's got issues - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569173&cid=43236987 [slashdot.org]


Can I be in your quote list? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569443&cid=43237531 [slashdot.org]


Clearly you are not an Intertubes engineer, otherwise the parent post would be more meaningful to you. Why don't YOU take your meds? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569425&cid=43238177 [slashdot.org]


+2 for style! The bolding, italicizing, and font changes are all spot-on - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569149&cid=43238479 [slashdot.org]


Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570085&cid=43243509 [slashdot.org]


APK is not really a schizophrenic fired former Windows administrator with multiple personality disorder and TimeCube/Art Bell refugee. He's a fictional character like and put forward by the same person as Goatse Guy, GNAA trolls, Dr. Bob and so forth. His purpose is to test the /. CAPTCA algorithm, which is a useful purpose. If you're perturbed by having to scroll past his screeds just set your minimum point level to 1, as his posts are pretty automatically downmodded right away. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570085&cid=43243145 [slashdot.org]


Anyone else think that sounds like Ron Paul? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569419&cid=43242417 [slashdot.org]


I just saw APK a couple days ago. He surfaced, blew once, and submerged... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570111&cid=43245913 [slashdot.org]


You make mikael christ the pet look like an huggable teddy bear - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570111&cid=43242373 [slashdot.org]


oh man, that incredible interminable list of responses is almost as funny as the original post. This is getting to be truly epic. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247231 [slashdot.org]


"Does anyone know of an Adblock rule for this?" -> "No, but I bet there's a hosts file entry for it..." - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43246997 [slashdot.org] http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247097 [slashdot.org]


"Can a hosts file block apk's posts, though?" -> "The universe couldn't handle that much irony." - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247135 [slashdot.org] http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247219 [slashdot.org]


"That's it, I've had enough. ... Bye everyone, most of the last decade or so has been fun, but frankly, I quit." - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247225 [slashdot.org]
--> "So basically what you're saying is that you've added yourself to the HOST file?" - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247481 [slashdot.org]


Sweet baby Moses, this is beautiful work - I wish we could get trolls as good as this on TF. :) - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572629&cid=43247533 [slashdot.org]


you have a point - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247823 [slashdot.org]


I do admire that level of dedication. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247765 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] shut up you stupid cock. Everyone knows you're wrong. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43250533 [slashdot.org]


I will hand it to him, he is definitely consistent. I wish I knew how he did this. That thing is scary huge. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572629&cid=43250411 [slashdot.org]


I admire the amount of dedication you've shown - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573571&cid=43251593 [slashdot.org]


Word is, ESR buttfucks CmdrTaco with his revolver. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573679&cid=43252957 [slashdot.org]


Hey APK, Protip: It's not the truth or value (or lack of) in your post that gets it modded into oblivion, it's the fucking insane length. In addition to TL;DR (which goes without saying for a post of such length), how about irritating readers by requiring them to scroll through 20+ screenfuls just to get to the next post. If you want to publish a short story like this, please do everyone a favor and blog it somewhere, then provide a brief summary and link to your blog. Readers intrigued by your summary will go read your blog, and everyone else will just move along at normal /. speed. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573873&cid=43255013 [slashdot.org]


Happy now - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569419&cid=43237239 [slashdot.org]


Professional. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43255143 [slashdot.org]


I like how this post seems to just sum up every Slashdot comment ever without actually saying anything. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574283&cid=43256029 [slashdot.org]


extremely bright - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43255855 [slashdot.org]


You provide many references, which is good. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43257043 [slashdot.org]


Holy shit - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3576121&cid=43260311 [slashdot.org]


this is a perfect example - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578157&cid=43265127 [slashdot.org]


You're my personal hero. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574283&cid=43260747 [slashdot.org]


Obviously very passionate - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43261975 [slashdot.org]


Is that ALL you have to say? C'mon! Tell us what you really think. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3576225&cid=43262495 [slashdot.org]


Thanks ... You should probably stay - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3577613&cid=43262993 [slashdot.org]


Art? -- http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569681&cid=43244883 [slashdot.org]


PROOF apk sucks donkey dick. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3577639&cid=43263029 [slashdot.org]


I've been around /. for a while now, but this post is by far the most unique I've seen. Many have tried, but few achieve the greatness of this AC. My hat's off to you. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3576225&cid=43264325 [slashdot.org]


PROOF apk is a liar! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578279&cid=43265249 [slashdot.org]


I think it's hilarious. Get over it! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578301&cid=43265657 [slashdot.org]


Obviously APK filled his hosts files with backdoors before distributing them to ensure he doesn't block himself. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578229&cid=43265767 [slashdot.org]


Alexander Peter Kowalski is an obnoxious prick. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42698875 [slashdot.org]


Don't mention that file. Ever. It'll draw APK like a fly to rotting meat. Last thing I want to read is 80 responses worth of his stupid spam about that file! I swear that cocksucker does nothing but search Slashdot for that term and then spams the entire article. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3554655&cid=43209619 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] You have had it repeatedly explained to you that your posts are long-winded, unpleasant to read due to your absurd formatting style and full of technical inaccuracies borne of your single minded i-have-a-hammer-so-every-problem-is-a-nail attitude. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491 [slashdot.org]


Oh shit, the hosts files have become self-aware and started hacking accounts. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3581857&cid=43276783 [slashdot.org]


What mad skillz you have!! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3581193&cid=43273941 [slashdot.org]


Am I the only one who enjoys this sort of insanity? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3582193&cid=43281063 [slashdot.org]


You are my favorite Slashdot poster. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3580251&cid=43270359 [slashdot.org]


Most insightful post on the Internet - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3579259&cid=43275207 [slashdot.org]


I read the whole thing *again* just to see if my comment was in there - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3588003&cid=43293069 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] So, did your mom do a lot of drugs when she was pregnant? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586303&cid=43291531 [slashdot.org]


people are looking at me funny because I'm laughing hysterically at what a perfect APK imitation it is. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3581991&cid=43278203 [slashdot.org]


I think he wants it to be an article, but doesn't know how to submit it. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586345&cid=43287717 [slashdot.org]


Slashdot devs seem in no hurry to fix this problem and it's been driving me nuts. So for anybody who values viewing at -1 and uses greasemonkey here's a Script [pastebin.com] . There's a chance of false positives and it's not the most optimized. But I value not having to scroll through > 10 paragraphs of APK, custom hosts files, or 'acceptable ads' spam. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586291&cid=43287671 [slashdot.org]
--> slashdot devs are too busy installing itunes for their hipster nerd buddys to sort this problem out. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586291&cid=43290701 [slashdot.org]


I can't get enough of all of this good stuff! Thanks for the informative links! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586291&cid=43287553 [slashdot.org]


When threatened, APK typically produces a post with links showing he's essentially posted this hundreds of times to slashdot stories... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586291&cid=43290275 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] Your post got downmodded because you're a nutjob gone off his meds. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586081&cid=43288893 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] The reason people impersonate you is because everyone thinks you're a moron. The hosts file is not intended to be used as you suggest. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3591803&cid=43302885 [slashdot.org]
-->What? You don't have a 14MB hosts file with ~1million entries in it? Next you'll probably tell me that your computer doesn't start thrashing and take 5 minutes for a DNS lookup! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3591803&cid=43302977 [slashdot.org]


[about apk] - this fwit is as thick as a post. worse, this shithead has mod points. and using them. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3591681&cid=43302873 [slashdot.org]


In before the fight between those two guys and their walls of text... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592647&cid=43306485 [slashdot.org]


HEY APK YOU ARE A WASTE OF OXYGEN -GET A LIFE - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3593009&cid=43308147 [slashdot.org]


KPA ...thgim dik a ekil .s.b laivirt hcus no emit hcum taht etsaw t'ndluow I sa ,ti gniod em TON si ti - syug ON - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592933&cid=43307605 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] You seriously need to go see a shrink. You are a fucking fruitcake! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592933&cid=43307559 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] Did you ever consider that it's not just one corrupt moderator, it's a bunch of regular slashdot users who infrequently get mod points who think you are totally full of shit? Stop posting annoying off topic irrelevant bullshit, and people won't mod you down. I'm seriously sick of reading your posts about someone impersonating you. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592933&cid=43308389 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] you should be forced to use a cholla cactus as a butt-plug - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592647&cid=43308219 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] No one is on your side, that is why you're here. posting. still. No one cares. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595009&cid=43310903 [slashdot.org]


Who's the more moronic? The original moron, or the one who replies to him knowing full well his comment will certainly be ignored, if not entirely unread, thus bringing the insane troll post to the attention of those who would otherwise not have seen it at all (seeing as it started at 0 and would have rapidly been modded down to -1) and whose post (and, somewhat ironically I grant you, this one as well) now requires 3 more mod points to be spent to hide it? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3593207&cid=43311073 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] I miss trollaxor. His gay porn world of slashdot executives and open-source luminaries was infinitely more entertaining than this drivel. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3593207&cid=43311225 [slashdot.org]


PLEASE stop modding biters up. Anyone who responds to an abvious troll, especually one of these APK trolls, should autometically get the same -1 troll as the damned troll. Any response to a troll only makes the troll do more trolling. Come on, guys, use your brains -- it isn't that hard. Stop feeding the damned trolls!


[to apk] Lick the inside of goatse's anus, it's delicious! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3589605&cid=43301757 [slashdot.org]


Excellent post A++++++++++++ would scroll past again!!!! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595009&cid=43312407 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] You are the one who is pitiful. If you didn't spam /. with your bullshit you wouldn't have spammer 'impostors' doing the same. Just fuck off and die already, ok? Please, really. Step in front of a bus. Drink some bleach. Whatever it takes, just FUCK OFF and DIE. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595851&cid=43313459 [slashdot.org]


I wouldn't be surprised if that is APK trying to draw attention to himself, since he thinks such endless tirades are examples of him winning and make him look good. When people stop paying attention to him, or post actual counterpoints he can't come up with a response to, he'll post strawman troll postings to shoot down, sometimes just copy pasted from previous stories. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592647&cid=43308851 [slashdot.org]


Did you see the movie "Pokemon"? Actually the induced night "dream world" is synonymous with the academic religious induced "HOSTS file" enslavement of DNS. Domains have no inherent value, as it was invented as a counterfeit and fictitious value to represent natural values in name resolution. Unfortunately, human values have declined to fictitious word values. Unknowingly, you are living in a "World Wide Web", as in a fictitious life in a counterfeit Internet - which you could consider APK induced "HOSTS file". Can you distinguish the academic induced root server from the natural OpenDNS? Beware of the change when your brain is free from HOSTS file enslavement - for you could find that the natural Slashdot has been destroyed!!

FROM -> Man - how many times have I dusted you in tech debates that you have decided to troll me by ac posts for MONTHS now, OR IMPERSONATING ME AS YOU DID HERE and you were caught in it by myself & others here, only to fail each time as you have here?)...

So long nummynuts, sorry to have to kick your nuts up into your head verbally speaking.

cower in my shadow some more, feeb. you're completely pathetic.


* :)

Ac trolls' "BIG FAIL" (quoted): Eat your words!

P.S.=> That's what makes me LAUGH harder than ANYTHING ELSE on this forums (full of "FUD" spreading trolls) - When you hit trolls with facts & truths they CANNOT disprove validly on computing tech based grounds, this is the result - Applying unjustifiable downmods to effetely & vainly *try* to "hide" my posts & facts/truths they extoll!

Hahaha... lol , man: Happens nearly every single time I post such lists (proving how ineffectual these trolls are), only showing how solid my posts of that nature are...

That's the kind of martial arts [google.com] I practice.


Disproof of all apk's statements:

http://pastebin.com/8yxcW3TJ [pastebin.com]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3581193&cid=43273839 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3581857&cid=43276593 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3581991&cid=43277017 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3582075&cid=43277273 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3582193&cid=43278565 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3584857&cid=43282375 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578357&cid=43282481 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3585297&cid=43283241 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3585417&cid=43283695 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3585451&cid=43284271 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3585593&cid=43284843 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3585795&cid=43285307 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3585827&cid=43285755 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586081&cid=43286509 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586127&cid=43286699 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586137&cid=43287021 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586291&cid=43287449 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586345&cid=43287755 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586303&cid=43289687 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586627&cid=43289733 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586589&cid=43290487 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3587901&cid=43290773 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3588003&cid=43290983 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3588135&cid=43292021 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3588293&cid=43292235 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3588505&cid=43293807 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3585927&cid=43293997 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3588749&cid=43294405 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3588831&cid=43295131 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3589063&cid=43295377 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3588881&cid=43295689 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3589089&cid=43295855 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3589273&cid=43296223 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3589297&cid=43296795 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3589441&cid=43298759 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3589575&cid=43301133 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3589605&cid=43301143 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3591681&cid=43303049 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3591803&cid=43304723 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592325&cid=43305507 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3591903&cid=43307375 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3588523&cid=43307387 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592187&cid=43307465 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3593009&cid=43308801 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592973&cid=43308813 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592933&cid=43308825 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592647&cid=43308843 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592647&cid=43308851 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3593139&cid=43311793 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3593207&cid=43311803 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595381&cid=43311815 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595009&cid=43311847 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595561&cid=43312467 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595609&cid=43312487 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595715&cid=43312649 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595851&cid=43312901 [slashdot.org]

That one hasn't got much windows in it (5, Funny)

sjames (1099) | about 2 years ago | (#43313807)

wife: I don't Like Windows8!

Well how about a 1024x768 tablet.

wife: That's got Windows 8 in it!

Husband: Well it's not as much Windows 8 as a surface...

SO? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43313821)

Does anyone care about this? Does anyone buy a windblows tablet? If so why? Fealty to Redmond? The other vendor's products are so much better. So they are pondering making a smaller screen. If it were 1/4 mm by 1/8 mm, I still wouldn't care. It would still be overpriced, underpowered, and the apps would still suck like a hoover.

Re:SO? (1)

roc97007 (608802) | about 2 years ago | (#43314019)

Enh. I disagree. Hoovers are useful.

I have this vision... (3, Informative)

roc97007 (608802) | about 2 years ago | (#43314009)

...of a tiny screen that holds, like, two tiles. It takes a lot of panic swiping to find an app...

But seriously, Windows 8 Pro will already work on lower resolution screens (ala netbooks). It requires a registry change (set display1_downscalingsupported to "1", reboot, set screen resolution high enough to run metro apps). I think all this means is that a future patch will have this parameter enabled by default.

Its an whorish market share grab (3, Insightful)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#43314083)

This is about caving to suppliers who can't [won't and don't] sell current windows hardware, against the army of good value Android tablets out there.

...and this really is vista again, Windows is not a lightweight OS which which was awful on the machines at the time [shudder i915], Windows 7 fixed a lot of things...but the big difference is was the hardware is ready.

Its going to be a bloodbath, Android failed to gain traction in the then iPad market [for two years no less], with its parity devices [expensive high end]...and dirt cheap unbranded [or weak branded] underspecced hardware, and Microsoft seem to want to go down the same path.

Android has finally upsurped iOS post Nexus 7, by producing well specced good value tablets, consumers are buying them in droves...showing they are not stupid. Microsoft is going to fail selling cheap tablets against Androids.

The big problem is as always Windows Tax [more noticeable on cheaper hardware], Which unfortunately is going make Windows tablets look overpriced right now. Microsoft need to rethink their business model, but right now they need to be less greedy.

Re:Its an whorish market share grab (1)

DogDude (805747) | about 2 years ago | (#43314215)

It's a moot point. The tablet fad will be over shortly, right after people get tired of trying to balance a tablet and use it at the same time, or right after those same people prop one up at an angle awkwardly on a desk, with an attached keyboard and mouse, and realize that they've got a grossly overpriced laptop with a fraction of the functionality. Silly consumers!

Post-Tablet market!? (2)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#43314383)

It's a moot point. The tablet fad will be over shortly

I'm not sure your post-Tablet market prediction is close to same. The don't doubt that the PC is still very relevant. In fact I'm personally disgusted in the whole industry rather trying to tabletify the whole PC industry...rather than reinvent a better PC, and include touch-screen functionality where it is relevant.

...but a fad not a chance, they are maybe threatened by large screen phones, but PC's...different use cases, and tablet, I'd rather had a better netbook, but Microsoft destroyed that dream, for its Tax on PC's

Saw the Surface at MediaMarkt yesterday (5, Interesting)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | about 2 years ago | (#43314121)

Saw the Surface at a large store yesterday. It was on the corner of a display stand. It was the smallest display area, of to the side of the "real" tablet area. Nobody was around it. Just a lonely little tablet for 500 euro's.

What Microsoft just never got because they are the bottom feeder is that people want something a bit special when they shell over cash. It is the reason why Starbuck can charge 2x as much for bad coffee as other stores AND have a longer line for it. Because when you go to Starbucks you don't buy coffee, you buy an experience. An experience of being served slightly better then at 99% of stores.

Apple has this experience. Microsoft doesn't. By definition it doesn't. People get hard/wet opening an Apple box. Nobody has to change their pants after a MS unboxing. Well, maybe accountants.

When you show off your device to others, you got have something to show off with. The first tablet, the high-rez tablet, the most cores, oled. SOMETHING. MS has NOTHING. Except a lame image and a high pricepoint. People didn't buy iPads because they were expensive bling, they paid a high price FOR the bling. It is a subtle different, it is the difference between a 1000 dollar mobile phone with specced out specs AND a 10.000 gold plated phone with mediocre specs.

Basically the Surface is the Zune all over again. Not because the Zune was objectively that bad but because it launched 2 years late with specs that belonged to 4 year old hardware. Not bad... but not good... and then there is that MS logo... it makes the people that hear "dude you got a dell" go "dude you got a ms".

There are just some companies that can't do sexy. Some companies go through the frontdoor of life and some companies are lucky to be allowed through the servant entrance, after dark.

Re:Saw the Surface at MediaMarkt yesterday (2, Insightful)

DogDude (805747) | about 2 years ago | (#43314233)

Your whole description of people getting excited over a gadget is really creepy. It's bordering on unhealthy, as far as I'm concerned.

Re:Saw the Surface at MediaMarkt yesterday (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43315403)

Yet so accurate.

Re:Saw the Surface at MediaMarkt yesterday (1)

Dr. Evil (3501) | about 2 years ago | (#43314717)

"What Microsoft just never got because they are the bottom feeder ..."

Some of us use MS products because we need to get work done.

... and Starbucks is fine, especially in Europe, where the typical cup of coffee is smaller than a Starbucks short cup.

That said, MS missed the mark. No question. Ballmer is a flaming idiot who won't give up until he succeeds at *something*, or destroys the company trying. He's doing a good job of the later.

People get upset opening their wallets/purses (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#43314729)

"Apple has this experience. Microsoft doesn't. By definition it doesn't. People get hard/wet opening an Apple box. Nobody has to change their pants after a MS unboxing. Well, maybe accountants."

No they don't. In fact Android and a whole host of Manufactures, which don't sell bullshit [Chinese hardware with insane mark-ups], but decent products at good value, its why they took the market so quickly away from Apple after pissing away for two years trying to be Apple [or the reverse sell garbage hardware].

Seriously I'm tired of the *top gear* style hyperbole. The iPad was successful because it was *great* hardware, and for a new market *not expensive*. Its only in a maturing market with a plethora of [real] competition its looking mispriced.

Apple can't sell *magic* anymore; Jobs could [with great hardware to back him up], but those day are gone. They are just another electronics company. Apple is going to become as irrelevant on tablets as they are with phones.

Ha ha ha (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43314185)

No stop! You're killing me, stop! Windows 8 "lower screen resolution" to 1024 x 768 pixels. That'll get 'em. Ha ha ha ha ha. My sides! It hurts!

"Mulling" - an outdated and awkward verb (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43314465)

The verb "Mull" was popular back in the day of strict headline size rules for newspapers. Today with the internet there is no need for it. It's awkward and ugly and ONLY used in headlines for a reason.

Please stop using it.

Re:"Mulling" - an outdated and awkward verb (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43314707)

But, But, I live on the Island of Mull, you insensitive clod!

Re:"Mulling" - an outdated and awkward verb (1)

Wookact (2804191) | about 2 years ago | (#43315043)

I've mulled over your post, and I believe you need to find a new pet peeve.

Lower Resolution (1)

PCeye (661091) | about 2 years ago | (#43314491)

Too bad Microsoft didn't support the lower resolutions in the first place. An older HP laptop I had tested with a native 1280x800 screen never left 1024x768 when I first installed Win 8. It ran stable, but without proper video drivers it wasn't worth even the discount. I would have even tolerated Metro, replacing Win 7 starter on my netbook but its resolution of 1024x600 was also not supported.

The HP did well with Gnome/Ubuntu instead.

In my circle of friends, no one had purchased Windows 8 during the discount offer. Either the older equipment or the screen resolutions were not supported. It's a little late now.

Prediction? (2)

erroneus (253617) | about 2 years ago | (#43314731)

Microsoft will not be able to pull it off.

Already Microsoft's attempts at using ARM isn't working out. Microsoft depends too heavily on its Wintel x86. They are simply too afraid to put too much behind a whole new architecture. Apple did it and it's working for them. Google did it... did it better, actually, because they use something "similar" to Java and so whatever processor is used in whatever device, code for Android will work. But they, like Apple, started from nothing.

Why can't or won't Microsoft do the same?

Microsoft has historically depended on hardware to catch up with the software. This has been fine with PCs until recently. There just hasn't been significant improvements in PC power. In fact, like tablets and phones, mobile PCs need to use less power to remain attractive and viable. Microsoft knows how to use more power, but has problems using less. It doesn't know how to be small.

So this is a huge failing for its embedded and its mobile devices market and certainly harms itself mobile computer market.

Micrsoft has billions to throw away. Why it doesn't focus on building something new and awesome, I have no idea. It can keep doing the Wintel thing and also make cool, light-weight, low power things too. WHY DOESN"T it? I just can't figure it out. Microsoft phones are failing. The RT tablet? Isn't that already dead in favor of their Wintel tablet line? And isn't the Wintel line also a bit of a failure in that it can't support the battery life in a way which compares to Apple and Android devices?

I just want to know why Microsoft, with it's enormous resources, can't just come out and compete with the rest of them?

Delicious Irony for Abusive Monopolist (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#43314997)

Why can't or won't Microsoft do the same?

Its kind or weird seeing the insanely priced x86 but impractical, but more useful netbooks posing as tablets, compared with its more reasonable price ARM and more practical tablet posing as a netbook, and unsurprisingly fail, but its the world Microsoft build. Microsoft has locked itself into a market it can't escape from. Its still selling on the windows branding an Office machine...with xbox branding (its damaged Windows Gaming brand beyond repair).

Its delicious irony that Microsoft is losing relevance in its own Monopolist market [and failing to break into new profitable markets], due to its own incredible dominance due to its own abuses...right now it doesn't have the binary ecosystem to compete with Android/Apple. Its Office products are not working either....and forget web browsing, because they are all designed to work with only Microsoft OS on X86

Hilariously they have gone for a locking their [not your] hardware down...and are dictating specs to its badly treated manufactures [while creating a competing 1st party product; Stealing the profits]...clearly they have forgotten how they succeeded last time, and why a Disk Based OS became the dominant computing platform.

I'm personally looking forward to Android becoming the dominant OS this year...I think I will eat cake.

Re:Delicious Irony for Abusive Monopolist (1)

erroneus (253617) | about 2 years ago | (#43315491)

After having just watched "John Dies at the End" your verbiage comes across really interestingly.

Interesting movie. It messes with you sense and understanding of reality.

But I guess Microsoft is like any religion. When you believe in god, you will believe in anything and especially that your god is all powerful. And, like Microsoft, when you believe you are God, you can't see the world changing around you. And you won't be able to see what you can't do.

Android becoming dominant this year? What's dominant? It will take a LOT to move business IT infrastructure and data away from Wintel. Android isn't enough to do that. At the moment, it's small. And it doesn't threaten to replace the way business does business. Not yet.

Windows? we don't need no stinking windows. (1)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | about 2 years ago | (#43314875)

Lower resolution would disable Snap, a feature that allows Windows 8 users to view two apps next to one another.

People only need to do one thing at a time. The iPad, with its silly single tasking interface, proves that.

Steve had me at "Magical" (2)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#43315319)

People only need to do one thing at a time. The iPad, with its silly single tasking interface, proves that.

(takes deep breath) Jobs said a lot of things, most if not all may to manipulate a market into believing that the shortcoming of of Apples products were design decisions, and the world had to bend to its will. Its why flash has been replaced without a real replacement, because it ran badly with an iphone, its why Apple were so late to market with a small tablet, its why your holding it wrong.

Apple products didn't multi task...and do to so some extent now. Its a feature users want, and viewing too applications (although not exclusive to Microsoft; Samsung tablets do it too) its a great feature.

You need to look at the current crop of Android tablets...they are so ahead of Apple its not funny.

A zune by any other name (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43315079)

sadasffas09asfiklamsf sa[a ^LDFGLDFG!@!@

Sorry, internet dropped out there for a minute -- paid for by Zune profits.

What Microsoft should actually be mulling: (1)

reboot246 (623534) | about 2 years ago | (#43315375)

Stop making Windows 8 tablets of any size.

I'll go with Android or even, God forbid, iOS before I'd ever consider Win8.

Re:What Microsoft should actually be mulling: (1)

LordThyGod (1465887) | about 2 years ago | (#43315463)

Stop making Windows 8 tablets of any size. I'll go with Android or even, God forbid, iOS before I'd ever consider Win8.

Uncanny, but I had the same thought. Windows is done. We'll have to tolerate the fallout for a while yet, but its done.

Bad headline: This is pure speculation (1)

DavidinAla (639952) | about 2 years ago | (#43315589)

The headline says, "Microsoft Mulling Smaller Windows 8 Tablets," but the truthful headline would be, "Many people are speculating that Microsoft is considering smaller Win 8 tablet." The headline as its written has no credibility, because nobody involved with the story has a clue what Microsoft's plans are.

Size? Really? (1)

Bad Mamba Jamba (941082) | about 2 years ago | (#43315635)

I'm sure this has already all been said, but just to pile on...I seriously doubt size is Microsoft's primary problem busting into the tablet space.

Seems like they should focus on fixing, by all reviews and accounts I've read, lack of apps. Or perhaps more succinctly, according to many reviews and comments, the inability to run Windows desktop apps.

However I must admit I am perplexed. My iPad doesn't run OS X apps and yet the iPad is well loved. Lusted after even. Why do we all scream for the ability to run desktop apps?

Simply opening the Win RT space to all windows desktop apps seems like it would only frustrate consumers with apps that weren't designed for the tablet form factor and don't meet their needs on a tablet. Pointing at ARM as the root problem is a technical excuse for something everyone thinks they want but can't have.

I don't give a crap my iPad is using an A6X processor and my Mac is using a i5. Why should I care if my Win RT tablet is using ARM and my desktop PC isn't?

I think it's more correct to say the iPad has a significant number of the *right* apps to make it attractive. By "right" I mean serves use cases for the tablet form factor.

Everyone also seems to focus on the pure quantity of apps available as a measure of success for a platform and why I want to invest in the platform. I suppose pure numbers are great because you are statistically more likely to get a hit on the *right* app. But I don't want to spend my time browsing millions of apps to find the right 0.01% I'd actually use. This is my #1 frustration with the Apple store.

Obviously MS is working hard to get the "big hits" from other tablets onto theirs. These are table stakes.

If I were Microsoft I'd also start working hard to understand the core things people do with tablets and look at the most popular desktop apps in their space to identify target applications to push for ports. Ideally unique applications the other tablets don't have yet. Their advantage is the desktop market. They need to bridge their desktop users into tablets with the applications their customers identify with. Office is a great start, but obviously still not enough.

They also need to leverage their small app space as an advantage - it's easier to ID and promote the *right* apps when you don't have millions of crappy apps to wade through.

That at least gets MS into the game. If they want to get ahead they need to identify and successfully execute on a disruptive technology. The space is becoming too saturated at this point to compete at status quo

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