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Dell Joins Steam Machine Initiative With Alienware System

timothy posted about 9 months ago | from the name-recognition dept.

Games 110

MojoKid writes "Plenty of OEMs have lifted the veil on their planned Steam Machine products, but Dell really seems to want to break free of the pack with their Alienware-designed, small form factor machine that they unveiled at CES this week. It's surprisingly tiny, sleek and significantly smaller than the average game console, weighing only about 4 — 6 pounds fully configured. Dell had a prototype of the machine on hand that is mechanically exact, complete with IO ports and lighting accents. Dell also had a SteamOS-driven system running, though it was actually a modified Alienware system powering the action with Valve's innovative Steam Controller. In first-person shooters like Metro: Last Night that Dell was demonstrating, the left circular pad can be setup for panning and aiming in traditional AWSD fashion, while the right pad can be used for forward and back movement with triggers set up for firing and aiming down sights. You can, however, customize control bindings to your liking and share profiles and bindings with friends on the Steam network. What's notable about Dell's unveiling is that the Steam Machines initiative gained critical mass with a major OEM like Dell behind the product offering, in addition to the handful of boutique PC builders that have announced products thus far."

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Um, What? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45925583)

Dell is actually going to offer an OS that isn't from Microsoft? Yes, yes, they've offered Ubuntu and RHEL I believe, but those are hard to get from Dell and the computers are sometimes more expensive than the Windows alternatives.

This is a noteworthy break in "tradition". Let's hope that this is the first step towards more OS opportunities from major hardware vendors.

I wonder if MS had to bless the SteamOS cert for 'secure boot' to work?

Re:Um, What? (2)

jellomizer (103300) | about 9 months ago | (#45925637)

Not to mention that Dell when they offer Linux with their server. Sometimes had a tendency to put it on hardware that Linux doesn't fully support.

Re:Um, What? (2)

Nomaxxx (1136289) | about 9 months ago | (#45925677)

Dell recommends Windows.

Re:Um, What? (1)

davydagger (2566757) | about 9 months ago | (#45930709)

on what, servers?

most dell servers I see run some form of linux, as they are one of the premier linux server distributors

source: I do this for a living kid.

Re:Um, What? (2)

Nomaxxx (1136289) | about 9 months ago | (#45930885)

This intended to be funny. Despite offering Linux server and laptops running Ubuntu, Dell writes "Dell recommends Windows" everywhere; on their website, in press and TV ads, mails. Currently, I'm a postman (I worked in IT before, I got my LPIC-1) and every letter I distribute from Dell has this writing on the envelope. It was revealed that Microsoft is offering vouchers to companies recommending Microsoft products. This led to some funny moments such as a web page where Dells says "Ubuntu is safer" just bellow a line reading "Dell recommends Windows Vista Premium".

Re:Um, What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45925959)

Name one.

Re:Um, What? (1)

jellomizer (103300) | about 9 months ago | (#45927161)

Inspiron netbook. It came with Ubuntu. However it ever fully supported the video.

Re:Um, What? (4, Interesting)

hairyfeet (841228) | about 9 months ago | (#45927049)

Uhhh...did everybody forget those ubuntu netbooks and laptops already? Wow, short memories here. I can't say as i blame ya though as Dell has hell with Canonical, with them even having to keep their own fork because default ubuntu kept crapping on the drivers.

That said while I was all jazzed up about Steamboxes, now? Its a big meh. i mean the STARTING price is the same as the Xbone, and that is for the LOW END bottom o' the line system? Really? When you can get the octocore PS4 for $100 cheaper? I have a feeling this will go over like a lead balloon, the PC gamers already have Win 7 and DIY, the console gamers aren't gonna pay $100 more than a PS4 for an i3 unit that frankly if it weren't for the stylish case would go for $350 at Worst Buy, and the icing on the fail cake is just how little of the Steam catalog actually runs on the thing. I mean who is gonna want to pay $500 for a machine that gives you a worse catalog than just buying a $299 i3 Worst Buy special and adding an $80 HD7750?

Re:Um, What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45927103)

Uhhh...did everybody forget those ubuntu netbooks and laptops already? Wow, short memories here.

Talk about short memories, the GP posted:

Yes, yes, they've offered Ubuntu and RHEL I believe ...

So no, not everybody forgot about those Ubuntu netbooks and laptops.

Re:Um, What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45927247)

You forget how much the Xbomb costs when it was first released? You could build a gaming computer for that price, same with PS3...

Once they get out in the wild they will drop in price, I see a lot of MS fanboys modded this up. And like anything else it will be a processes to perfect the software/hardware...

And no one has promised anything over these devices, it is still experimental...

The problem is Dell builds crap computers, and Canonical is shutting out the Linux community...

Same problem 3DO had (1)

rsilvergun (571051) | about 9 months ago | (#45927333)

I think it was the Wikipedia article that pointed it out. You can't make a hardware standard like you can for DVD players and CD players because the tech in game consoles is too pricey. You need to loss lead or you can't compete.

Now, if they games were $30 instead of $60 they might have a value proposition. But most big budget titles (Call of Duty, Skyrim, Assassin's Creed, etc) launch at $60.

Re:Same problem 3DO had (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | about 9 months ago | (#45928553)

Oh bull, if little old me could build a decent gaming system for less than that then surely these corps with the economies of scale could do better, but I have a feling their heard the word "game console" and just like "gaming PC" is a codeword for "We'll fuck you hard and raw on price" so too are they trying to make mad money on these units which is royally fucking valve's chances of competing. Now watch how easy it is..

We'll do this the fast and easy way, note that I could probably shave a good $60+ by picking parts individually instead of going kit. Start with AMD hexacore kit [tigerdirect.com] which gives you 8Gb of RAM, a 500GB HDD, burner, and a nice case, throw in this HD7750 [tigerdirect.com] which is what I game on and it plays quite nicely without sounding like an F15 taking off, and finally add Windows 7 HP 64bit [tigerdirect.com] which if we were building a Steambox wouldn't even be a cost.

So final total? Less than $500 building it with Windows, less than $400 building it as a Steambox. Now if little old me can do it there ain't no reason why one of these other companies couldn't make something just as affordable. if Steambox is to have a prayer it needs to have something in the $350-$440 range to make it appealing compared to PS4 and Xbone but at $500? For an i3? Sorry but I fail to see who the thing is gonna sell to. PC gamers are gonna look at the specs and do what I just did and pass, console gamers will compare to PS4 and thanks to Playstation Now their library is gonna curbstomp Steambox, and finally everybody else is gonna look and find out "big name game X" runs on the Windows Steam but does NOT run on the Steambox which will just make Steambox look crippled and sucky. Like it or not the vast majority of PC AAA games? They run on DirectX and very few of them have OpenGL support. Most of the companies simply won't bother with the extra expense of porting it to OpenGL proper over the custom OpenGL ES, especially when the majority of the PC gamers are on Windows, it just won't make good financial sense.

Steambox is stuck with the classic catch 22 in that it needs enough users to get AAA devs porting but they can't get the users until they have the AAA games and unlike Nintendo they just don't make enough first party titles to be compelling on their own enough to sell Steamboxes. So while i was really pumped when i first heard about this now? big meh. the price is too high, not enough big name titles, it looks like a product in search of an audience i just don't see being there.

This Just In (1)

Anti-Social Network (3032259) | about 9 months ago | (#45927433)

This just in: Alienware machines are overpriced.

Details at 11

Re:Um, What? (1)

m00sh (2538182) | about 9 months ago | (#45927647)

That said while I was all jazzed up about Steamboxes, now? Its a big meh. i mean the STARTING price is the same as the Xbone, and that is for the LOW END bottom o' the line system? Really? When you can get the octocore PS4 for $100 cheaper? I have a feeling this will go over like a lead balloon, the PC gamers already have Win 7 and DIY, the console gamers aren't gonna pay $100 more than a PS4 for an i3 unit that frankly if it weren't for the stylish case would go for $350 at Worst Buy, and the icing on the fail cake is just how little of the Steam catalog actually runs on the thing. I mean who is gonna want to pay $500 for a machine that gives you a worse catalog than just buying a $299 i3 Worst Buy special and adding an $80 HD7750?

PS4 price is the fixed price and they will not have sales on it until 4-5 years down the road.

With Dell products they have sales, coupons, outlets, clearances, price drops and what nots. With Dell products, you have to look at 60% of the price as the price Dell will be happy selling them at.

Of course steamboxes are more expensive (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 9 months ago | (#45928399)

The hardware makers have to make money on it.

Traditional game consoles are subsidized. When they launch they are sold for a very thin profit at most, and generally are sold for a loss (sometimes a fair sized one). The money is then made up on games (each game sold pays a license fee to the console maker).

That's not the case with Steam boxes. Valve isn't subsidizing it, they aren't even participating the the building. They are having others do it. Well Dell doesn't mind, they are open to sell PC hardware anywhere they can. But they require a profit on it. They aren't going to take a loss, because the only money they'll see from it is the up front sale.

Also, something that does help the consoles price wise this generation is the AMD chip. Their GPU and CPU is one unit. That costs less than two separate units. Also AMD is giving the makers a very deep discount to win the contract.

Hence, it is gonna be more expensive. That is one of the major problems a Steam box will have: It'll cost more than a console of roughly equal performance.

Re:Of course steamboxes are more expensive (1)

Zencyde (850968) | about 9 months ago | (#45929271)

So you mean I don't get to buy a subsidized console when I get to buy all my games on sale? :(

Oh wait, that's awesome. It an alternative to the razor cartridge/printer cartridge strategy. Spend a little more upfront, and spend less down the road. I love it!

You don't get to buy your games on sale (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 9 months ago | (#45929549)

You might, but then again you might on consoles too. Games cost full retail on Steam. Assassin's Creed 4 is $60, same as for the PS4 and the Xboner. It is, in fact cheaper for the PS3 and 360, only $50. Now, it was on sale for a day on Steam's winter sale for $45 (still more expensive than the Wii U version now) but only for that short sale. If you want it now, $60 it is.

What about older titles? Say, Crysis 2. Only $30 in the Steam Store now. From Amazon? $20 for the PS3/360.

Yes Steam has sales, but they are limited time only sales. Guess what? Amazon, Gamestop, etc all do that too. If you shop sales, and if you buy older titles, you can have games cheaper. You want the newest titles around release? You are paying $50-60, regardless of platform.

Don't get me wrong, I love Steam, I'm a PC-only gamer, I have 200 games in my Steam library. However don't kid yourself in to thinking you spend more getting a Steam machine and the save money on all games. No such luck.

In fact, I'd hazard a guess that on the old generation consoles, you could spend even less if you stuck strictly to older games, because used is an option. Like again take Crysis 2. If you buy on Steam, you pay Steam's price, period. $30 right now, and even assuming a big 75% sale $7.50. Right now Amazon has used copies for sale for $5 for the 360. There are never any used Steam games, since you cannot resell them.

So sorry, but for most consumers it isn't going to equal some amazing cost savings, unless Valve drops their prices a lot. They can't do that though, because they let publishers set the prices and the big publishers require agency pricing anyhow.

Re:Um, What? (1)

davydagger (2566757) | about 9 months ago | (#45930715)

no, your getting an alienware PC, a top end PC brand.

so your going to get the ease of a console, with the performance of a PC.

>octocore PS4

any performance benchmark figures to match up with marketing terms.

every intel PC has twice as many cores as stated, because of hyperthreading(AMD simply counts them as seperate cores)

Re:Um, What? (1)

mjwx (966435) | about 9 months ago | (#45930981)

Uhhh...did everybody forget those ubuntu netbooks and laptops already? Wow, short memories here. I can't say as i blame ya though as Dell has hell with Canonical, with them even having to keep their own fork because default ubuntu kept crapping on the drivers.

That said while I was all jazzed up about Steamboxes, now? Its a big meh. i mean the STARTING price is the same as the Xbone, and that is for the LOW END bottom o' the line system? Really? When you can get the octocore PS4 for $100 cheaper? I have a feeling this will go over like a lead balloon, the PC gamers already have Win 7 and DIY, the console gamers aren't gonna pay $100 more than a PS4 for an i3 unit that frankly if it weren't for the stylish case would go for $350 at Worst Buy, and the icing on the fail cake is just how little of the Steam catalog actually runs on the thing. I mean who is gonna want to pay $500 for a machine that gives you a worse catalog than just buying a $299 i3 Worst Buy special and adding an $80 HD7750?

Hmmm, the congitive dissonance has kicked in early.

The latest generation of consoles has been lack lustre at best. I'm still betting on a mobile phone OS based console taking out the low end, but I'll now bet the high end will be slaughtered by the steamboxes.

For people on a budget, a $200 console will be more appealing than a $400 PS4, for people who want to play games the variety and massive back catalogue on Steam would be the clincher. Lets not forget that PC games are cheaper then Console games (especially when a Steam sale gets involved). So despite a higher initial cost, total cost of ownership would be much less.

Java Hungry (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45925589)

Yeah java is must to learn if you want to make career in technology field . Java tutorials and coding can easily be found in the internet . One site is http://javahungry.blogspot.com/
For technical interview in java , must read below link
http://javahungry.blogspot.com/2013/09/core-java-coding-programming-questions-answers-technical-interview-java.html

Re:Java Hungry (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45925955)

Sorry, I already got my fill at JavaThirsty.halfcaf.latte ... do you know if biscotti.snacks4.me is open?

price (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45925611)

All this news about steam machines is great, but in the end they will compete with consoles, not with standard PCs.
So the prices I have seen for now are not encouraging.
They need to sell around 400$ or very few people will buy them.

Re:price (3, Insightful)

itsdapead (734413) | about 9 months ago | (#45925819)

All this news about steam machines is great, but in the end they will compete with consoles, not with standard PCs.

Higher end of the console market + lower end of the specialist gaming PC market (which is Alienware's arena) sounds like a viable target market to me.

There's probably not enough details of these third party steam machines yet, but in principle they should be more customisable and expandable, with more up-to-date hardware than consoles. Also, (unless Dell et. al. break out the footgun and lock their boxes down), they can double as Linux PCs or dual-boot Windows if you really must.

Plus, there's the potential of a "single market" for content that covers Steam on Mac, Windows and regular Linux distros, commercial Steam Machines and home-brew SteamOs boxes.

Re:price (2)

elrous0 (869638) | about 9 months ago | (#45925863)

Not for me, thanks. Two of the things I love about consoles are never having to check "System Requirements" or upgrade to support a new game. If I wanted that, I would just go back to PC gaming and playing the never-ending videocard chase.

To me, the Steambox looks like the worst of both worlds.

Re:price (5, Insightful)

vux984 (928602) | about 9 months ago | (#45926115)

Two of the things I love about consoles are never having to check "System Requirements" or upgrade to support a new game.

Offset by 10 of the things I hate about consoles:

1) completely locked down
2) loaded with ads
3) games that are substantially more expensive
4) charge premiums for access basic features (e.g xbox gold)
5) artificial roadblocks to indie developers
6) artificial roadblocks to mods
7) demanding I have the disc in the drive, despite installing it to the hard drive
8) locking my online purchases to single physical console
9) arbitrary limitations on what controllers are available
10) 5 years out of date hardware on launch day

So, yeah, I can live with checking the box for requirements. To each their own, but I think that's the worst reason going to choose consoles.

For what its worth, I -do- have a Wii and WiiU, and I like them. For the last several generations now, Nintendo has had the least idiotic restrictions, and its relatively unique games library, and local multiplayer options have won me over my complaints. But the last playstation I owned was the PS1, and I've yet to have any interest in an xbox.

PC gaming had a rough batch of years for a while after the collapse of the retail market for games (when eb / gamestop etc all reduced their PC offering to one tiny shelf with some overpriced obsolete PC titles in beat up boxes).

But now, between Steam, GoG, Desura, Humble bundles, and the levelling off of the pc performance curve enabling gaming rigs to go for years without needing hardware to play ... the selection of games is enormous, and the prices are stupidly low.

Add in the maturity and ease of use of voice chat, readily available game servers etc. PC Multiplayer still lags behind consoles in terms of user friendly ... but its no longer anywhere near the chore it once was to setup.

Right now we are in a new golden age of PC games!

Now just give me a good joystick Space Sim in the vein of Privateer!

Re:price (1)

atriusofbricia (686672) | about 9 months ago | (#45926319)

Agree with everything... Though, who actually checks system requirements these days unless you know your machine is so marginal that it isn't even funny. I'll grant maybe I'm not the average, maybe I'm blinded by my own experiences and resources, but unless you're wanting to play Crysis at won't most people's normal machines handle the vast vast majority of games without even blinking?

Am I wrong here?

Re:price (1)

mjwx (966435) | about 9 months ago | (#45930999)

Agree with everything... Though, who actually checks system requirements these days unless you know your machine is so marginal that it isn't even funny. I'll grant maybe I'm not the average, maybe I'm blinded by my own experiences and resources, but unless you're wanting to play Crysis at won't most people's normal machines handle the vast vast majority of games without even blinking?

Am I wrong here?

Considering Crysis came out in 2007... OK I'm being pedantic :)

I agree with your point, the only problem you have is people who dont play games, buying games. Little Johnny's dad buys him Call Of Repetition 46, Dickwolf Ops on PC, he doesn't know or care if it would work in the ancestral family computer. Consoles do eliminate this problem, but introduce dozens more as the GGP pointed out.

The solution is for the people wanting to play the game, becoming involved in buying them (system requirements are published these days, a quick Google will tell you more than the back of the box ever will) otherwise they will remain chained to the console. Some will even begin to like it with some form of Stockholm Syndrome, not only accepting and liking the abuse, but also inflicting it on themselves and others.

Indie roadblocks are there for a reason (1)

tepples (727027) | about 9 months ago | (#45926509)

games that are substantially more expensive

In my experience, one copy of a console game that allows up to four players in one household is cheaper than two to four copies of a PC game that requires a separate PC per player [cracked.com] .

artificial roadblocks to indie developers

The roadblocks were put in place because in 1983, a flood of me-too titles from startup developers was causing the median quality of Atari 2600 games to become unacceptable. Retailers were discontinuing video games in their stores citing end user dissatisfaction. Nintendo couldn't even get its console into stores in 1985 without finding some cryptographic way to assure retailers that their valuable shelf space wouldn't be filled with crap. How would you propose to improve median game quality while still allowing indie developers?

7) demanding I have the disc in the drive, despite installing it to the hard drive
8) locking my online purchases to single physical console

Other than by using the disc or the console as the root of trust, how would you propose instead to verify that a single purchased copy of a computer program isn't being used on more offline machines than for which it is licensed? Armed service members who are deployed often don't have Internet access to phone home daily (as in the original Xbox One plan) or even monthly (as in Steam).

9) arbitrary limitations on what controllers are available

As opposed to PC games, many of which impose arbitrary limitations on how many controllers a game recognizes at once as a way to sell more copies. Few PC games allow split screen. I've also noticed a disturbing trend of games using only XInput and ignoring DirectInput, which ends up allowing only Xbox 360 controllers, not USB HID joysticks. Microsoft in fact requires games to be XInput-only if they're made for Windows RT or otherwise sold through Windows Store because the Windows Runtime does not support DirectInput.

10) 5 years out of date hardware on launch day

The hardware in the Game Boy Advance and Nintendo DS was 10 years out of date, being roughly equivalent to a Super NES or Nintendo 64 respectively. They won on battery life.

Re: Indie roadblocks are there for a reason (1)

O('_')O_Bush (1162487) | about 9 months ago | (#45926589)

Last I remembered, most games don't support split screen, especially FPS games, which means if you want four players playing against each other, you need two to four consoles plus two to four TVs. Or the alternative is an entirely miserable experience with screen peeking because the other players' views are adjacent your own.

In co-op you want screen peeking (1)

tepples (727027) | about 9 months ago | (#45926931)

All Call of Duty games that I've seen played on my cousin's Xbox 360 console support 2-player split screen. Screen-peeking is desirable in co-op [slashdot.org] .

Re:Indie roadblocks are there for a reason (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45926777)

7) demanding I have the disc in the drive, despite installing it to the hard drive

8) locking my online purchases to single physical console

Other than by using the disc or the console as the root of trust, how would you propose instead to verify that a single purchased copy of a computer program isn't being used on more offline machines than for which it is licensed?

You don't. You treat customers like you want their business.

10) 5 years out of date hardware on launch day

The hardware in the Game Boy Advance and Nintendo DS was 10 years out of date, being roughly equivalent to a Super NES or Nintendo 64 respectively. They won on battery life.

Those aren't consoles.

Rent, install, return (1)

tepples (727027) | about 9 months ago | (#45927255)

You treat customers like you want their business.

So how should a publisher treat its customers like the publisher wants its customers' business but doesn't want the customers to compete with the publisher itself? If console games could be installed to a hard drive with no digital restrictions management, then the publisher could sell only one copy of the game in an entire city because everyone would be installing off the same disc and returning it to the store.

[Dedicated handheld video game systems] aren't consoles.

They are unlike consoles in some ways (being battery-powered and pocket-sized with an internal display) but like consoles in others (cryptographic lockout of homemade games). In any case, console hardware is somewhat out of date at launch because out-of-date hardware fits within the cost and TDP expectations of console buyers.

Re:Indie roadblocks are there for a reason (2)

vux984 (928602) | about 9 months ago | (#45929467)

In my experience, one copy of a console game that allows up to four players in one household is cheaper than two to four copies of a PC game that requires a separate PC per player.

a) I routinely buy PC games for less than 1/2 or 1/4 what a single console game costs... often for the same title.

b) Tons of xbox games do not support split screen play

c) All that said, that's precisely one of the reasons why I have the Wii and Wii U. It is better for local coop.

The roadblocks were put in place because in 1983, a flood of me-too titles from startup developers was causing the median quality of Atari 2600 games to become unacceptable.

And yet Steam and GoG and other online stores are doing just fine. Multiple curated stores work fine to keep it from being a crapflood.

How would you propose to improve median game quality while still allowing indie developers?

Any 5 year old can write software for the PC. That doesn't mean its going to get onto steam, or another major store. It doesn't matter how many roadblocks steam puts up, because the platform itself is open. So if I want to run that 5 year old kids software I can, but its not going to clog up the popular stores.

Other than by using the disc or the console as the root of trust, how would you propose instead to verify that a single purchased copy of a computer program isn't being used on more offline machines than for which it is licensed?

Trusting the customer. Pricing things and providing support (server player matching, free updates, dlc, etc... so they are motivated to buy even if they can get it for free.)

Working for GoG.

Armed service members who are deployed often don't have Internet access to phone home daily

This is the single most ridiculous argument I've ever heard.

You can't possibly expect to convince anyone that deployed troops need to access to the latest triple AAA video games is a valid reason for oppresive Disc based DRM.

You do realize the publishers could solve that simply by removing the DRM. Support our troops EA, Microsoft, Sony! Remove the DRM! Then our troops won't have to carry a backpack full of easily scratched discs around in sandholes in the middle east where replacement are hard to come by.

As opposed to PC games, many of which impose arbitrary limitations on how many controllers a game recognizes at once as a way to sell more copies.

Its not to sell more copies, its because at present very few people are setup to even play PC games multiplayer locally. The steambox push may well put a lot more PCs on TVs with controllers and energize the PC market for more local / split screen coop.

Microsoft in fact requires games to be XInput-only if they're made for Windows RT or otherwise sold through Windows Store

The beauty of PC gaming is that there are other stores than the one store store with stupid rules that the vendor wants to push.

The hardware in the Game Boy Advance and Nintendo DS

Handhelds are an entirely separate conversation, and right now they are having their lunch eaten by mobile phones and tablets. My kids have a 3DS, and it makes more sense than a mobile smartphone contract for a 7 year old. And they enjoy them (hello pokemon) but angry birds, tiny wings, candy crush... whatever is sucking back a lot of their time too now too. And adults have largely dropped handhelds for mobile phones. Yeah the controls aren't as good, and the games aren't usually as deep... but for a lot of them its good enough, and they already have it in their pocket.

Re:Indie roadblocks are there for a reason (1)

tepples (727027) | about 9 months ago | (#45929525)

Tons of xbox games do not support split screen play

And tons do.

Its not to sell more copies, its because at present very few people are setup to even play PC games multiplayer locally.

So apart from the Steam Machine, which platform is best for indie games designed around local multiplayer?

Microsoft in fact requires games to be XInput-only if they're made for Windows RT

The beauty of PC gaming is that there are other stores than the one store store with stupid rules that the vendor wants to push.

The only store compatible with Windows RT is Microsoft's own.

Re:Indie roadblocks are there for a reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45929669)

So apart from the Steam Machine, which platform is best for indie games designed around local multiplayer?

The PC: http://store.steampowered.com/search/?category1=998&category2=24#category1=998&genre=Indie&category2=24&sort_order=ASC&page=1

Re:Indie roadblocks are there for a reason (1)

vux984 (928602) | about 9 months ago | (#45929815)

And tons do.

And I've already said that was an area the consoles have the advantage. That its the reason I own a Nintendo etc. I'm not sure what your argument here is.

If you are buying a console for local multiplayer right now today, then that makes perfect sense.

So apart from the Steam Machine, which platform is best for indie games designed around local multiplayer?

Which platform is best in terms of availability right now today of indie games designed around local multiplayer?

Or which platform is the best in terms of supporting indie developers creating games designed around local multiplayer?

The former is clearly consoles. The latter? PC with or without steam is probably the best. XBLA and Nintendo VC etc are good, but there's a more roadblocks ahead of the developer.

The only store compatible with Windows RT is Microsoft's own.

And windows RT isn't a PC.

Bringing up RT here is like me saying locked down consoles and devices suck, and you saying but what about RT... and that all i can say is "so what about RT? Its another locked down device. Its not a PC and it sucks."

Microsoft deluded itself into thinking RT is PC (1)

tepples (727027) | about 9 months ago | (#45929885)

Or which platform is the best in terms of supporting indie developers creating games designed around local multiplayer? [...] PC with or without steam is probably the best.

This is what I meant. So as I understand it, the route to market is to start on PC without Steam, then submit games to Greenlight once they gain traction, then try consoles. Am I right? But several Slashdot users have repeatedly told me [slashdot.org] that nobody other than a hardcore geek wants to connect a PC to a TV to play local multiplayer games. To me, the Steam Machine (a Linux PC designed for set-top use) appears to be the most viable way to turn this around.

And windows RT isn't a PC.

Someone should tell that to whoever manages Microsoft's web site. I too was surprised when Microsoft described RT tablets as Windows RT PCs [microsoft.com] .

Re:Microsoft deluded itself into thinking RT is PC (1)

vux984 (928602) | about 9 months ago | (#45929945)

To me, the Steam Machine (a Linux PC designed for set-top use) appears to be the most viable way to turn this around.

I think we are in agreement here; as I agree with everything in your post.

Someone should tell that to whoever manages Microsoft's web site. I too was surprised when Microsoft described RT tablets as Windows RT PCs.

Way to go microsoft! Because calling it Windows didn't confuse enough people.

Re:price (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45928243)

Nintendo had had the least idiotic restrictions? You mean like friend codes? Tying digital downloads to the console rather than the user? Locked regions between even neighboring countries? No HDMI on any Wii release and composite only on the Wii Mini? Forcing updates from disc to play games? Broken WPA & WPA2 support on a wifi only system?

Yes, Nintendo has been a sterling example of sanity compared to the other guys.

Re:price (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45928539)

The biggest one I think is losing all your old games, my dad played a ton of halo 2 back in the day, then one day they shut the servers down for no reason. It may have been a couple of years old but to drop the game and then release a classic "anniversary edition" which was a throwback was just ridiculous.

Re:price (4, Insightful)

Chandon Seldon (43083) | about 9 months ago | (#45926477)

That hasn't been a serious thing in years. If you bought a decent gaming PC in 2006 you'd still be playing new games on it today.

Requirements from one platform to next (1)

tepples (727027) | about 9 months ago | (#45926585)

Two of the things I love about consoles are never having to check "System Requirements" or upgrade to support a new game.

Let's say you own a PS3. You see a game, but the front of the box says "System Requirements: PS4". Too bad. Requirements creep in PCs is more gradual than in consoles, where some console makers were quick to drop their previous platforms. For example, good luck finding new games for the original Xbox in 2006 after the Xbox 360 had just come out. And just as many Game Boy Color games could fall back to the slower CPU and monochrome screen of the original Game Boy, many PC games can fall back to lower detail settings.

Re:price (3, Interesting)

spire3661 (1038968) | about 9 months ago | (#45927413)

The never ending video card chase ended after the 8800 GTX. Any mid to top range card will last AT LEAST 5 years.

Re:price (1)

davydagger (2566757) | about 9 months ago | (#45930727)

they are replacing that all with levels 1,2,3,4,5.

each level will speciy video card, ram, cpu, etc..., like kind windows 7 does. lowest rating is overall rating.

So if you have a level 3 game, you need a level 3 or better machine. fucking simple.

Re:price (1)

Hamsterdan (815291) | about 9 months ago | (#45926639)

" but in principle they should be more customisable and expandable, with more up-to-date hardware than consoles. Also, (unless Dell et. al. break out the footgun and lock their boxes down), they can double as Linux PCs or dual-boot Windows if you really must. "

No. being all identical is what makes consoles perfect for gaming (I'm saying that as a PC gamer, the only two consoles I ever had are a NES and PS2). That means a game made today (FIFA 2014 for PS2) *WILL* run perfectly on my console, launched in March 2000. Try running a modern game on a 14 year-old PC. That may well be why the Steambox fails.

Hmm (5, Insightful)

koan (80826) | about 9 months ago | (#45925617)

Can we stop putting unnecessary lights on everything, it's gotten tiresome.

Re:Hmm (4, Informative)

Mashiki (184564) | about 9 months ago | (#45925695)

LED's are the new clock-on-everything. You know it's true.

Re:Hmm (4, Interesting)

nschubach (922175) | about 9 months ago | (#45925977)

Funnily, when I got rid of my cable box, I realized that I lost my only way to quickly tell time in my living room. I took my old Android phone and cradled it on my stack to have a clock that's easily readable. Sure, I could get a clock for the wall or whatever, but that seems like more of a pain.

Re:Hmm (1)

Ksevio (865461) | about 9 months ago | (#45926819)

I had the same problem - turns out clocks are handy. Of course there's still the one on the thermometer, the thermostat, the stove, the microwave, and everything electronic in my pocket - but what am I suppose to do? Turn my head around? Not when I have an electronic picture frame I can stick in my living room with a clock!

Re:Hmm (1)

koan (80826) | about 9 months ago | (#45926149)

I guess, it strikes more as "The punters like shiny things".

Re:Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45925973)

Can we stop putting unnecessary lights on everything, it's gotten tiresome.

How else am I supposed to know that my console is on, but dead [slashdot.org] ?

Re:Hmm (1)

LongearedBat (1665481) | about 9 months ago | (#45926413)

It's like with Bluetooth... everything is better with Bluetooth, only LED's are flashier.

Re: Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45926551)

Perhaps, but my computer room looks like New York at night when I turn the lamp off.

Re: Hmm (2)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 9 months ago | (#45927839)

Kids these days.

When I was a kid one of the guys at the PDP-11 lab had written low priority tasks just to strobe the front panel lights like something was jumping into the machines smart peripherals (when a higher priority task swapped it out). The low priority tasks were full of 'data' that made it look like the higher priority task was jumping into the device based on all the front panel LEDs strobing.

apply for your citizen profile report (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45925623)

we should be given the chance to uninfract, confess, repent.... which is quite difficult if we know not whatst we have done like it does say in the manual

Indormation (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45925697)

Thanks for sharing very useful information with us. thanks alot writer. :) Hotel In Delhi [almondzhotel.com]

Re:Indormation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45926961)

It is funny when the spam comments are less annoying than half the actual comments on a website.

Re:Indormation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45927069)

I couldn't agree with you more, commenter. And neither can the new Slashdot Beta [slashdot.org] , brought to you by the fine people at Dice.com [dice.com] where you can find a job posting well tolerated spam on Slashdot.

Why am I skeptical ? (2)

vikingpower (768921) | about 9 months ago | (#45925701)

Prolly because Dell - estimate is all mine, YMMV - gets > 98% of its revenue stream from selling grey / black boxes to enterprises with deep pockets, NOT from peddling Alienware stuff.

True, I had an Alienware laptop once, and it was awesome. But still. I never met someone else with an Alienware box. And these are simply *too e x p e n s i v e * for being considered for anything resembling daily prodution use. So this is, quite probably, just muscle-flexing. The future will quite quickly tell us what this is really worth.

Re:Why am I skeptical ? (2)

wbr1 (2538558) | about 9 months ago | (#45925749)

Alienware used to be quite the boutique vendor. Remember when their ads were the back cover of nearly every Maximum PC? The area 51 was about the single most powerful laptopyou could get, if you didnt mind 30 minute battery life and a huge price tag. Then Dell bought them and they, to my mind and at least, have largely ceased to have much relevance.
However, Dell does have the money due to its humongous other operations to push this market a little nwith the steam box and see where it goes. I have a feeling that after the initial push, it will settle down to just two to three manufacturers with two to four models each. even that selection I hope will give the console wars a push in a better direction.
Also, d + e = 5 and l = 12. 12 - 5 = 3. Half life 3 confirmed.

Re:Why am I skeptical ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45925825)

Also, d + e = 5 and l = 12. 12 - 5 = 3. Half life 3 confirmed.

This must be that "New Math" i keep hearing about

Re:Why am I skeptical ? (1)

Lemming Mark (849014) | about 9 months ago | (#45925999)

My employer did buy a top-of-the-range Alienware desktop once because it was the fastest available machine for single threaded performance (at least, out of off-the-shelf options) due to its being factory overclocked. I imagine if we'd gone for a more boutique vendor we might have got faster but I suppose it was still good to have the support.

FWIW we weren't just playing games, we actually had long running single threaded simulations that we wanted to get out of the way as fast as possible! It's now my desktop PC after my previous one died - so that worked out OK in the end!

Off topic, but why WASD? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45925707)

the left circular pad can be setup for panning and aiming in traditional AWSD fashion

I'll probably get (rightfully) down-modded for this being off-topic, but it doesn't usually get mentioned at all - WASD is just assumed to be the standard - so I'm using its mention as an excuse to ask: why did WASD "win"? Games used to default to ESDF, and for a while some had a choice of default configurations for ESDF and WASD. I've wondered why this shift happened.

While it's mostly an arbitrary choice either way, ESDF makes more sense to me because you keep your hands on the home row, so it doesn't interfere with typing habits. Also gives you extra bindable keys to the left of A that you won't have if your pinky's sitting on capslock.

Re:Off topic, but why WASD? (2)

Raumkraut (518382) | about 9 months ago | (#45925751)

I don't know why WASD "won" (people say "AWSD"? Really?), but I've never played a game which had ESDF as the default. I've never even *heard* of a game which had a pre-configured option to use those keys. Not that I disagree with the advantages, however.

But back in my day, ZX*? was the standard.

Re:Off topic, but why WASD? (2)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | about 9 months ago | (#45925761)

ESDF was standard in Tribes and tribes 2, iirc.

Re:Off topic, but why WASD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45925809)

ESDF was standard in Tribes and tribes 2, iirc.

I believe it was also so, either by default or as an option, in Quake 2 and the first Thief game, among others. My memory could be faulty on this point, of course.

Re:Off topic, but why WASD? (0)

ledow (319597) | about 9 months ago | (#45925823)

I remember the days of QAOP-Space.

But I've never seen nor played a game with ESDF default (and especially not Quake 2 as another poster suggests.

WASD just makes more sense in terms of hands - it's extreme left to be in the most shoulder-comfortable position when your other hand is on a right-handed mouse, but without hitting stupid / odd keys like Caps Lock etc.

Re:Off topic, but why WASD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45925893)

QAOP is the only true solution for keyboard control ;-) Since I always played PC space flight games or RTSs, then got an XBox, I think I may have legitimately played more hours with QAOP than WASD.

Re:Off topic, but why WASD? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45925827)

With WASD my pinky rests on ctrl which I use for crouch, and then I use left shift to run. With EDSL my pinky rests on the windows key which can cause all sorts of issues. Its bad enough that the console key ` on BF4/BF3 is right next to 1 which means that sometimes when I switch to my main weapon I accidentally press ` and find myself unable to move, and very quickly dead.
  Oh and going back to the old old days I and most others I knew used QAOP Space on the Spectrum 48/128k.

Re:Off topic, but why WASD? (2)

vux984 (928602) | about 9 months ago | (#45925937)

I don't know why WASD "won"

My sense is that it was momentum from the earliest PC days when you had 2 player multiplayer off a single PC.

Player 1 used the arrow keys/number pad. Player 2 used WASD.

WASD was the closest thing to the inverted-T on the furthest left. (Because with 2 players on one keyboard things were cramped.

ESDF fails both criteria... its not as close to the inverted T shape, and its not as far left. WASD was the natural choice.

Then as things went on, most games had default single player keymaps on the left and right using the arrow keys/numberpad and wasd. As games got more complicated the numberpad started getting seriously neglected, since there weren't a lot of keys that were easily reachable from the numberpad (especially from the index finger of a right handed person) vs the half the keyboard you could reach from WASD, plus the number keys on top... it was no surprise that gradually the "numpad" mapping became a useless afterthought -- where developers would omit key functionality from the numberpad mapping (2ndary functions like reload, or zoom, or toss grenade, change weapon fire mode... 2ndary, but still crucial were omitted making the numpad mapping useless without them.

Re:Off topic, but why WASD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45926577)

Always preferred ESDF. ASDF are the "home" keys and therefore should be optimal for finger placement. Never understood WASD, except that maybe someone didn't like the bump on the F key, and thought Caps Lock should always be under their little finger.

Re:Off topic, but why WASD? (1)

Rowan_u (859287) | about 9 months ago | (#45926229)

I have always used SADX not WASD. The real reason for WASD is that it mimics the placement of the arrow keys; however, SADX is much more ergonomic as your middle finger isn't constanty overstretched :)

Re:Off topic, but why WASD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45925903)

I don't remember ESDF. I like WASD except for the fact that with a french keyboard 2 of those keys are swapped (A with Q, and W with Z), so for far too many games, the first thing I have to do is edit the keys, I'm so fed up with that :(

Re:Off topic, but why WASD? (1)

znanue (2782675) | about 9 months ago | (#45925943)

Uhh, I used QWES because I was a tank in WoW. I imagine many other tanks in WoW learned the same style. WoW had Q and E be the strafing keys and A and D were nonsense keys for turning. You were a BAD tank if you turned... Of course many bad tanks are going to respond to this justifying the ability to turn with the keyboard, but there was never ever a reason to do anything but strafe. To me, this de-emphasizes back peddling and makes it more likely that you want to move forward, a trait I've found positive in FPS's where I now use the style exclusively as well.

Re:Off topic, but why WASD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45926015)

(Grandparent AC here)

Uhh, I used QWES because I was a tank in WoW. I imagine many other tanks in WoW learned the same style. WoW had Q and E be the strafing keys and A and D were nonsense keys for turning

Peculiar that you just migrated your hands upward a row instead of replacing the turn keys with strafe, but interesting to note. Did you never consider replacing or did the horrible keybinding configuration the game had (and still has) discourage you from bothering? It seems like it would have made more sense to replace the turn keys and free up a couple extra keys for other keybinds.

When I started WoW, I copied the ESDF I'd learned from FPSes of old. Never even considered using the default with left and right turn. No turn keys at all, in fact - S and F to strafe, E and D for forward and back, just like I'd used in them. Keyboard turning was, and still is, completely unbound. I still use ESDF, in fact, and have long-since replaced most of the default skill-use key binds (especially 6-0, equal, minus) with pinky-friendly buttons (W, A, Z) and the mouse (wheel, side switches). Not completely related, but I swap caps and ctrl, so shift and ctrl are both easy to hit for modifiers as well.

You were a BAD tank if you turned... Of course many bad tanks are going to respond to this justifying the ability to turn with the keyboard, but there was never ever a reason to do anything but strafe

Agreed completely, though I'd add that it's true for any melee, not just tanks, and not just in WoW. You can see a huge difference in reaction time and mobility when comparing turners versus mousers. Possibly even more relevant now than ever, due to the increased focus on motion during boss encounters.

Casters can sometimes get away with it more, though even there it's better to strafe and use the mouse for turning.

Re:Off topic, but why WASD? (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 9 months ago | (#45927253)

None as far as I know. Most people (not just tanks) that weren't utterly clueless knew how to rebind keys, and vast majority of people I know used A and D for strafing, just like in FPS games.

Default button assignments in WoW were almost as bad as default interface in WoW was.

(Formerly DPS/Offtank in WoW)

Re:Off topic, but why WASD? (1)

JanneM (7445) | about 9 months ago | (#45926263)

As other people point out, wasd and esdf are the exact same layout, but wasd are right next to the tab, caps and shift keys which are often used as well. And without any extra keys in between it's easier to hit them accurately. Also, as pointed out, in two-player games it'd give you more room for two players to use the same keyboard.

Me, I always preferred mapping my Wico joystick to whatever buttons I needed in any game. Never had any input device work as well as one of those, and I used one of their trackballs for years instead of a mouse.

Re:Off topic, but why WASD? (1)

BergZ (1680594) | about 9 months ago | (#45926365)

I used to use "TFGH" so that (like "ESDF") there were extra buttons in each direction, but also so that I could reach more of the # keys easily (to switch between weapons). Once I got a mouse with a scroll wheel I no longer needed to reach the # keys quickly and converted to "WASD" because it was the default.

Split keyboard (1)

tepples (727027) | about 9 months ago | (#45926835)

The problem with TFGH is that "ergonomic" keyboards with a big gap between TGB and YHN were popular when the first-person shooter genre conventions were becoming standardized. I had to switch to RDFG.

Re: Off topic, but why WASD? (1)

O('_')O_Bush (1162487) | about 9 months ago | (#45926607)

WSAD was chosen because it was easier to reach the 1 key, which is important when games started picking 1 as 'switch to primary' or 'switch to secondary' weapon.

I distinctly remember playing Tribes/Tribes 2 and having to reach over to hit 1 and it being a bit risky with either tilde/Q being in close proximity and the key being too far over for me to have an intuition about where it was. I forget what it did though, I thought it was mapped to kit for kit swap rather than to a weapon.

Re:Off topic, but why WASD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45929785)

the left circular pad can be setup for panning and aiming in traditional AWSD fashion

I'll probably get (rightfully) down-modded for this being off-topic, but it doesn't usually get mentioned at all - WASD is just assumed to be the standard - so I'm using its mention as an excuse to ask: why did WASD "win"? Games used to default to ESDF, and for a while some had a choice of default configurations for ESDF and WASD. I've wondered why this shift happened.

While it's mostly an arbitrary choice either way, ESDF makes more sense to me because you keep your hands on the home row, so it doesn't interfere with typing habits. Also gives you extra bindable keys to the left of A that you won't have if your pinky's sitting on capslock.

Back when there might have been any struggle between WASD and any other key binding for domination, PS/2 keyboards simply were only able to support combinations of 3 keys being pressed simultaneously at maximum (depending on layout of the circuitry, some combinations of 2 keys might be the maximum even if there are some combinations of 3 that work). SHIFT, CONTROL, and ALT were exemptions that were always processed and are much easier to press on a left-most key binding.

And that is why you see mundane things like modes of travel that may want to be done without interrupting other actions are usually bound to SHIFT or CONTROL, such as walk, run, crouch, thrust up/down, etc. It is also why in some really old games that do not have mouse support use CONTROL for shooting and attacking and such, and not just because it might have movement bound to arrow keys by default.

Even today, most keyboards made are stuck at SHIFT + CONTROL + ALT + 3 other keys at maximum. It is all about trying to not fight the keyboard key limit.

2014: YEAR OF LINUX ON THE DESKTOP (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45925743)

Between Chromebooks and Chrome boxes, Android-powered laptops and desktops (I am not talking about the dual boot, or Android on Windows 8 things, but the pure Android offerings), and the various Steam Machines, I think 2014 is going to be the year when Linux, kernel makes a dent in the desktop marketrshare. It already obliterates all other OS-es in mobile devices.

Captcha: sweetest

Re:2014: YEAR OF LINUX ON THE DESKTOP (2)

elrous0 (869638) | about 9 months ago | (#45925887)

If a tree falls in the woods and no one knows what kernel it's running, does it make a sound?

Re:2014: YEAR OF LINUX ON THE DESKTOP (2)

znanue (2782675) | about 9 months ago | (#45925949)

If a tree falls in the woods and no one knows what kernel it's running, does it make a sound?

Since there are cross-cutting concerns between the platforms, the answer is yes. People know that this runs Linux, more people will spend time developing for Linux, some of those developments might have a positive impact on the desktop or people maybe more likely to install it as their desktop.

Re:2014: YEAR OF LINUX ON THE DESKTOP (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45926423)

If a tree falls in the woods and no one knows what kernel it's running, does it make a sound?

I am the OP. And my answer is: the developers know very well, and that's not nothing.

And FWIW, captcha "loosens".

Re:2014: YEAR OF LINUX ON THE DESKTOP (3, Funny)

takshaka (15297) | about 9 months ago | (#45926899)

If a tree falls in the woods and no one knows what kernel it's running, does it make a sound?

Not if it's running pulseaudio.

Re:2014: YEAR OF LINUX ON THE DESKTOP (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45927169)

If a tree falls in the woods and no one knows what kernel it's running, does it make a sound?

Only if its kernel natively supports the tree's sound card driver.

It's WASD, not AWSD. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45925773)

jus sayin'.

Re: It's WASD, not AWSD. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45925807)

I prefer the all inclusve WASDECQ.

Will Dell take care of the Steam support too ? (1)

Issarlk (1429361) | about 9 months ago | (#45925783)

Please say yes ! It can't be worse than the copy-paste support robots at Steam.

Re:Will Dell take care of the Steam support too ? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45926893)

Please say yes ! It can't be worse than the copy-paste support robots at Steam.

Dell Support: So, if I am to understand you, you have steam coming from your OS?
Customer: No, no, no! Just no!
Dell Support: OK. No steam. That is good. What version of Windows are you running? Dell recommends Windows 8.1, now with Start Button!
Customer: I don't have Windows! I have SteamOS!
Dell Support: Have you tried rebooting it? When you reboot it you will see a Windows logo ...

Troubles of the PC vendors (2)

Turmio (29215) | about 9 months ago | (#45925967)

I guess that in order to please the shareholders and ultimately survive in the business it's absolutely essential for the traditional PC vendors such as Dell to be innovative and seek and try out any possible new revenue streams, markets, and business models due to the terrible shape of the industry [slashdot.org] ... Five years ago the idea of starting to build and offer Linux based gaming boxes probably would've raisen rather unintentionally hilarious sentiments among the senior product management people of a PC vendor if someone would've dared to suggest something like that.

Re:Troubles of the PC vendors (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45928227)

In case you forgot Dell is no longer public listed.

Steam machines are going to fail. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45926029)

It seems like Valve fired everyone who was good at hardware, so instead they went to these different companies and said "Do you want to make a Steam machine? It's going to be the Next Big Thing!". The companies thought "Oh sweet, they're guaranteed to sell because Valve says so". So they put out these overpriced and underpowered pieces of crap (a regular PC for the same price is just better in every way than most of these) in the hopes of making money and when they go on sale, consumers will just go "Uh no. I don't think so.", and it's gonna be a huge flop.

It really sucks because I want Linux to succeed, and if only they had made a reasonably powerful, PC-compatible and Windows-free device for $300 it would probably have been great.

Big noisy tower (1)

tepples (727027) | about 9 months ago | (#45926841)

a regular PC for the same price is just better in every way than most of these

I don't see how. For one thing, "a regular PC" likely comes in a big noisy tower that doesn't look good in a living room because it's even more XBOX HUEG than the original Xbox. For another, the maker has to skimp on GPU to pay for the Windows license. Switching to SteamOS, which Valve offers for zero royalty, diverts money away from Microsoft and toward a GPU and industrial design.

Paid story (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45926173)

This is a paid story. Everyone knows that and Dell was the only company which did *not* reveal its hardware specs. This is ridiculous. Please talk about the other 13 Steam boxes.

spyware ahoy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45926343)

get on that game kid we want to know , is the new nsa phrase

Metro: Last Night (1)

kelwell (903472) | about 9 months ago | (#45927299)

I think I remember this movie. It had Rob Lowe and Demi Moore in it.

How? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45928125)

How can I use this to clean my car's upholstery and carpets?

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