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GPUs Dropping Dead In 2011 MacBook Pro Models

Soulskill posted about 8 months ago | from the satisfaction-is-not-guaranteed dept.

Portables (Apple) 359

New submitter blackwizard writes "MacRumors is reporting on pervasive GPU failures in 2011 MacBook Pro machines, leading both to intermittent video issues, corruption, crashing/freezing, and eventually even failure to boot. Luckily for Apple, the machines are now out of warranty (unless you bought AppleCare). The issues have been reported both on Apple's own forums and other blogs. Apple has so far failed to take action on the problem. Will they take ownership of the issue, or continue to ask customers to pay for an entire new logic board when just the GPU fails?"

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Warranty Shouldn't Matter (4, Informative)

dmiller1984 (705720) | about 8 months ago | (#45998849)

If it's truly faulty hardware Apple will typically own up to it and offer repairs free of charge. I have the 2008 MBP that had a logic board issue and Apple replaced it for free even though I was well past the warranty and didn't have AppleCare.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45998871)

If it was faulty then it should have failed in the first days. That it happens three years later is a sign that the user is to blame.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (5, Funny)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about 8 months ago | (#45998883)

If it was faulty then it should have failed in the first days. That it happens three years later is a sign that the user is to blame.

For not buying a new machine after the warranty expires?

I am intrigued by your ideas and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (2)

Rhywden (1940872) | about 8 months ago | (#45999047)

Just think of what a boon this kind of thinking would be to the automobile industry!

A new car mandatory after three years.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (4, Insightful)

amiga3D (567632) | about 8 months ago | (#45999205)

It's all the rage in appliances. Try buying a new major appliance without buying a warranty. When, not if, they fail you can count on a repair bill of 200 to 1000 dollars nowadays. If it's over three years old and you have no warranty then you might just as well buy a new one for what it'll cost unless you can repair it yourself. I fixed my refrigerator and while sitting at the appliance parts supply place waiting to pay 22 dollars for a part the guy next to me looked at it and laughed. I replace 7 or 8 of those a week he laughed. I asked what he charged and he told me 165 dollars. That was 8 years ago and I've replaced that same fucking part 3 times since then. I hate working on appliances but I hate taking it up the ass even more.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 8 months ago | (#45999373)

What part was it? Was it electronic? I've seen a lot of consumer appliances and electronics failing because of bad capacitors (well after the "capacitor plague" of the early 2000s). It's a lot cheaper to replace a few caps than a whole board.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (3, Interesting)

MightyYar (622222) | about 8 months ago | (#45999375)

I've also noticed that the high-end appliances seem to have more problems than the cheap stuff. Admittedly, I'm a small sample size, but I bought a house that had previously been owned by Orthodox Jews, and so there are two of everything in the kitchen. I haven't had to repair any of the cheaper appliances, but the expensive stuff keeps nickel and diming me.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (5, Informative)

dgatwood (11270) | about 8 months ago | (#45999459)

That's not really a surprise. A few years ago, while trying to decide between two products made by a major electronics company, I asked one of their engineers for advice (having repeatedly repaired the previous product before giving up on it), and he suggested that if lifespan was a major concern, I should buy the cheaper model. Why? Because it was built in such volume that even a 1% failure rate would be catastrophic to the company's bottom line, whereas a much higher failure rate in the expensive product would still be a small enough number of total units that it could be absorbed.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999431)

>>but I hate taking it up the ass even more.

Clearly you have not been to prison then.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999551)

You buy shit quality products then. I have a 30 year old refrigerator that still runs great and has never had a problem.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999499)

You must be too young to remember how US cars were made through the 50s through most of the 70s. It wasn't until the Japanese companies like Toyota and Datsin began to sell cars and small trucks in the US in the mid 1970s that outlived the American cars that US companies began to build decent autos.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45998897)

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999245)

But... but... my butt buddies down at the bath house told me "They Just Work!" Plus, because I am a flaming homosexual, and Apples ARE, of course, "THE" gay computer, what was I to do?

And DON'T tell me to get a PC. Have you seen that PC guy on the commercials? Puhleeze!

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45998901)

1/10 good try

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (1)

noh8rz10 (2716597) | about 8 months ago | (#45999365)

my wife had a problem where here macbook (the old white plastic ones) the palm rest cracked and they replaced it free, 3 years old. I had a problem with my 2009 macbook pro where the feet came off, they replaced it free. apple will take care of you. a lot of the rage here is an instinctive reaction from getting screwed over by so many companies. give apple a try.

also, the summary is a lie and FUD. Nowhere in the linked article does it use the word "pervasive". Here's the first sentence: "Many early and late–2011 MacBook Pro owners with discrete graphics cards seem to be experiencing GPU failures and system crashes on their machines." In this context, "many" can still mean 0.00001%.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45998915)

Not always, there always issues that can cause premature failure over the long term like bad drivers that cause it to overheat excessively beyond design or something else along those lines. Problems like these are much harder to notice, and while it will be within Apple's right to not fix these, how well would it do it for their image? Apple's image is a very important part of sales, hurting their image now to save a few bucks can well cost them more down the road. Really though, this just depends on how rampant this issue is along with how vocal the people with these issues are.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (-1, Troll)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 8 months ago | (#45999385)

Why should Apple give a shit? People are going to buy their stuff regardless.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45998965)

Nvidia used to have a problem with solder joints breaking due to repeated thermal stress, i.e. the GPU expanding and shrinking as it heats up and cools down depending on the processing load and corresponding power consumption. Sony had a problem with camera sensors losing connections, which affected quite a few manufacturers who used Sony sensors. These problems are not the users' fault. They're manufacturing defects. Nevertheless, warranties are time-limited because shit happens and manufacturers can not realistically guarantee that their stuff works forever.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45998899)

Bullshit, Apple will do no such thing unless they face severe penalties. Here in Denmark it took several court cases regarding faulty design on the MBP, which Apple lost all of them - even then did Apple not want to own up and repair the affected MBPs, it wasn't until they faced severe repercussions they started fixing them.

By the way, I'm a happy MBP owner and will probably keep being one, just saying, don't expect them to go out of the way to help you.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45998989)

A laptop built by my company has serious issues with GPUs dropping ead. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of laptops in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (3, Informative)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about 8 months ago | (#45999215)

That's the Ford Pinto memo [calbaptist.edu] , eh? I doubt if anybody is going to leak Apple's modern equivalent.

Not that anybody is gonna die like with the Pinto, but the pangs of Mac withdrawal could be debilitating.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (0, Flamebait)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 8 months ago | (#45999395)

It's not a problem for Mac owners if their computer dies. They can just go to an Apple store and buy a new model. I'm sure the store employees will even help them transfer their data over (perhaps for an extra fee). Apple owners don't mind paying through the nose for stuff like this.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (2)

amiga3D (567632) | about 8 months ago | (#45999233)

That's good for bean counters that run most corporations these days. Eventually though you lose brand loyalty if you keep fucking your customers over. When that happens you become just another nothing special outfit. Apple can't afford that. If they lose the association of quality with their name they'll die.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999255)

I think it depends on who you speak to and how you speak to them, in the States the managers of Apple Stores are allowed to replace machines out of warranty for no cost at their own discretion. My mother in law's 4 year old MBP was replaced with a new model after repeated logic board failures (all of which was done for free)

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (5, Informative)

Just Some Guy (3352) | about 8 months ago | (#45999319)

That's not true. I bought a used, out-of-warranty iMac which developed bad capacitors (swollen and leaking) on the graphics card a year later. I called Apple and they replaced everything inside it without charging me a penny. I never heard of that being a big scandal, and in the US I doubt they had any legal obligations to fix my 3.5 year old used Mac.

I think a more accurate version is that sometimes Apple fixes things for free because they want to, and other times because they're forced to. There's no obvious way of knowing in advance which way an "event" will go.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (5, Informative)

chmodman (565242) | about 8 months ago | (#45999077)

I have this model MBP, and yes, it failed exactly as described. I think the problem is made worse when paired with the thunderbolt screen, which forces the dedicated GPU to be used instead of the Intel GPU. It runs super HOT all the time, even when simply web browsing. Many have found a utility called smcFanControl to force the fan to run at full speed at all times in an attempt to compensate for a bad design. There are numerous YouTube video's of how to "cook" the logic board in an oven for 3 min @ 375 deg to reflow the solder and I found this does fix it temporarily, so its definitely a solder ball issue. Ultimately, I found a repair service on e-bay that for $150, replaces the solder balls on the BGA with lead balls (supposedly) and this is a more permanent fix. According to him (and he seems legit) the lead-free BGA balls suck, and over time fail with extended heat / use. I hope there is a class action on this one, because I paid almost $3k for this laptop and it only lasted 2 years!

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999187)

My unit suffered from the exact same issue. Apple has refused to replace the logic board since it was out of warranty. So I have disassembled the unit and sent the logic board to some guy for repair (reballing). After I week I was told the logic board cannot be fixed and they offered me a new one. Alternatively they send the bad board to me at my cost. I have inspected the logic board after it came back and noticed that they didn't do anything at all aside from removing the thermal compound.
I guess you see catch here.

Lesson learned:
1. Do not buy a MBP
2. Do not send any broken parts for repair

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (3, Funny)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about 8 months ago | (#45999229)

3. Keep remaining good hand clear of the Genius Bar.

Re: Warranty Shouldn't Matter (4, Interesting)

DigiShaman (671371) | about 8 months ago | (#45999389)

This is an industry wide issue thanks to RoHS. This isn't just Apple, this effects Dell and HP laptops that have high temp GPUs. The XBox 360 is another perfect example. The problem is caused from the constant thermal cycling causing expansion and contraction as it cools. Like bending a paper clip, over time metal fatigue sets in and cracks the solder.

Re: Warranty Shouldn't Matter (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about 8 months ago | (#45999491)

This is an industry wide issue thanks to RoHS.

Yep, and the thermal profile of a laptop (and a thin one at that) makes it that much more of a difficult environment.

I wonder when or if we've seen the first deaths from RoHS - in safety-critical systems in healthcare or potentially dangerous environments. Lead is akin to kryptonite in the anti-DHMO circles that run government bureaucracies.

Remember, kids, GPU's are chips but you shouldn't put them in your mouth.

Re: Warranty Shouldn't Matter (2)

dgatwood (11270) | about 8 months ago | (#45999563)

We've almost certainly seen deaths. Some models of vehicles have frequent ABS module failures because of solder joints failing, even in the U.S., where RoHS doesn't apply. With lead-free solder, I'd expect those problems to be much more frequent, and every ABS unit that isn't working increases the odds of somebody being unable to avoid a car accident.

Mind you, chances are good that none of those deaths have been properly reported as being caused by RoHS, because the odds against someone noticing something as subtle as a defective ABS module during a post-crash investigation are astronomical.

Can doing a lot of Ruby on Rails cause this? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999087)

Shit, I'm getting really worried now. I've got a 2011 MacBook Pro and I do so much Ruby on Rails and JavaScript. I wake up at 4 am every day and then I put on my fedora, my anime t-shirt and I write Ruby on Rails and JavaScript libraries until 3 am the next day. Sometimes I don't even eat and urinate, but that's beside the point.

Could all my hardcore Rubying be causing my MacBook Pro to die? I do push it pretty hard. A lot of the coding I'm doing is webscale. I even use NoSQL I'm dealing with so much data. My web app's logging subsystem logs almost 2 GB of data a month. When you're dealing with a lot of data like that a superpowerful database like Mongo then I can understand my poor little MacBook having a hard time coping. Maybe I'm pushing her too hard?

I can't just ease up though. I've got so many Ruby on Rails web apps to write and so many JavaScript libraries to craft. This is a life or death situation for me. I don't want it to be a life or death situation for my MacBook either. We've been through so much! I remember writing my very first line of code ever on my laptop. It was a Ruby code and it made me feel really good. Now I'm an accomplished software architect with numerous Web 2.0 web sites under my belt like for the local veterinarian and the herbal store down the street.

Now I really don't know what to do. I'm so confused. I want my MacBook to live forever because it has become part of me. But I need to use her, too. I need her to do my Ruby on Rails coding and my JavaScript programming. I need to use my NoSQL DB but if it hurts my MacBook Pro, do I really want to use it? I just don't know any more.

Re: Can doing a lot of Ruby on Rails cause this? (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | about 8 months ago | (#45999481)

Drink more Pabst, you'll feel better.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (0)

nurb432 (527695) | about 8 months ago | (#45999123)

Warranties do not, and should not last forever ( much as your hardware will not last forever if you use it ). If your device has made it since 2011, its not a 'defect', but worn out. ( heat and silicon are not friends )

While it would suck, I wouldn't expect a company to even call me back after my warranty has expired. Their liability has expired.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999173)

Bullshit. The titanium power books launch model had bad hinges that broke too easily. When they did the whole screen had to be replaced, for about $1k usd. They would only replace the hinges with the fixed design if they had not already broke.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (0)

wwphx (225607) | about 8 months ago | (#45999185)

They were quite good about replacing the main board in my laptop several years ago when the GPU failed and said it wouldn't have mattered if it were in or out of warranty, in or out of Apple Care. A friend of mine had the same problem with HP laptops and lost three of them, HP told her to lump it and didn't lift a finger.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (2)

Carrot007 (37198) | about 8 months ago | (#45999265)

> If it's truly faulty hardware Apple will typically own up to it and offer repairs free of charge.

You missed one important bit.

Applies only in the US. Fuck elsewhere we do not care about you.

Re:Warranty Shouldn't Matter (4, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about 8 months ago | (#45999311)

I've seen the opposite. In the UK, if you quote the Sale of Goods Act when you call them up, they'll quickly replace faulty parts 4 years after the original purchase. In the US, as soon as the warranty expires, you're fucked if anything goes wrong.

Pay only 3 times the real value (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45998861)

Motherboard failure happed to me with a Mac Mini only one month after the warranty expired. The problem was that the epoxy used on the boards when they were made was in short supply, so a substitute resin was used on some to keep production up. Apple wanted $499 for a new board. I never bought another Apple product again. If your MacBook Pro died. Find out what it will cost to replace the board. After your shock go look for a new machine. Apple price gouges the aftermarket.

Re:Pay only 3 times the real value (2)

umafuckit (2980809) | about 8 months ago | (#45999209)

Motherboard failure happed to me with a Mac Mini only one month after the warranty expired. The problem was that the epoxy used on the boards when they were made was in short supply, so a substitute resin was used on some to keep production up. Apple wanted $499 for a new board. I never bought another Apple product again. If your MacBook Pro died. Find out what it will cost to replace the board. After your shock go look for a new machine. Apple price gouges the aftermarket.

I have the opposite story. I brought my MBP in to the Apple store because it was over-heating and I asked them to change the fans. They refused (for some reason) but they gave me a free motherboard replacement instead (or at least they claimed they did). This fixed the problem for a while but the over-heating came back eventually. I then paid to have the fans changed, which meant it ran quieter because the bearings were shot. Still over-heated, though.

I know people that this has happened to... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45998867)

Thankfully, I was there to tell them "I told you so."

Re:I know people that this has happened to... (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999069)

Thankfully, I was there to tell them "I told you so."

It doesn't matter, Appletards are such because they love being fucked by Apple.

What do you mean, just the GPU fails? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45998885)

You bought a laptop because a desktop is too old-fashioned. Well, in a laptop, there is no separate graphics card that you could replace. The GPU, like all the other chips, is soldered to the "logic board". That's a non-repairable item, so it needs to be replaced to fix the computer. Or just buy a new one. You know you want to.

Re:What do you mean, just the GPU fails? (-1, Redundant)

Khyber (864651) | about 8 months ago | (#45999093)

"Well, in a laptop, there is no separate graphics card that you could replace. "

Never heard of MXM slots, I see. We've been replacing the GPU in laptops for YEARS.

Heat-sink (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45998887)

About a week ago I cleaned off the giant gobs of heat sink compound on my early 2011 15" MBP's CPU & GPU and replaced it with Arctic Silver to help address overheating and display issues. So far it is running cooler and I haven't had a lockup again yet. I run it lid open driving the internal display and a 24" Cinema display. I also maxed out the ram to 16gb and replaced the boot drive with a SSD to help curtail heat but I have no idea if the latter will create more heat. The mobo was replaced once for this issue over a year ago but it still continued to run too hot and eventually the display(s) would lock up. I'd certainly be open to a voluntary recall or perhaps a significant discount on a new machine. Dreams are nice.

ATI hardware (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45998923)

Coincidence?

Re:ATI hardware (1)

robthebloke (1308483) | about 8 months ago | (#45999381)

They've had the same QC issues with Nvidia chips in MBP's in the past (GT8600M). Last time they extended the warranties [apple.com] . This time.... ?

Not just ATI (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45998927)

If you read the forums... all the macs' gpus tend to fail. They aren't designed to last past warranty. The amount of heat coming off those things is comparable to some of the worst-built PC laptops that actually have decent ventilation. The limited elegance of the Mac directly correlates with the lack in serviceability and specs.

What's the big deal (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45998931)

MacBooks are mostly used for appearance. Surely, the hipsters can go to a coffee shop with one that doesn't have a working GPU.

History (3, Informative)

Sponge Bath (413667) | about 8 months ago | (#45998945)

Apple has shown they will replace whatever is necessary, if there is a defect. When the Nvidia 8400M chip was defective (material in chip package caused solder ball fracture due to thermal expansion), they replaced main boards. Dell used the same chip in XPS laptops (I had one and it did die), and supplied the same fix. Of course, in that instance they got some reimbursement from Nvidia.

Smart corporations know to do the right thing or take a righteous bitch slapping from consumers and lawyers.

Re:History (1)

Sponge Bath (413667) | about 8 months ago | (#45998963)

Correction: 8600M

Re:History (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999321)

Apple has shown they will replace whatever is necessary, if there is a defect.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't fit the Slashdot Group Hate. Please revise your commenting of face the Fan Boi Slap-down.

Re:History (4, Interesting)

Mark4ST (249650) | about 8 months ago | (#45999369)

The problem is that Quanta (they build system boards for Apple's laptop division) has never been able to properly do a ball grid array. The problem is not the chips or cooling, it's the "good enough" techniques Quanta uses to attach them to to a system board. If a ball grid array is done properly, it can be quite robust-- Quanta doesn't seem to care about longevity of the product, and hasn't for a number of years.

Quanta's quality problems are even more dire when you see that they manufacture about one third of the world's laptop system boards.

Please see Quanta [wikipedia.org] and ball grid array [wikipedia.org] .

Re:History (2)

Sponge Bath (413667) | about 8 months ago | (#45999493)

The problem is not the chips or cooling, it's the "good enough" techniques Quanta uses to attach them to to a system board.

The case I described had a detailed investigation by Nvidia, who claimed responsibility and reported the materials problem in the chip package. They payed hundreds of millions to settle. The chip in question was used by multiple vendors, all of which had the same failures.

Given those facts, it is hard to see how you come to the conclusion Apple/Quanta is responsible.

Re:History (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999471)

Apple will just turn around and take it out on the ass of the supplier.

Nothing new (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45998951)

Apple's version of video cards fail far more than the same board in a PC, both ATI and NVidia have something like 470% higher failure rates when in a Mac Pro compared to a generic Intel PC. It's no surprise they are doing the same in laptops. No doubt there's a subtle designed in failure for obsolescence to ensure people keep replacing machines every 2-3 years.

Re:Nothing new (0)

elfprince13 (1521333) | about 8 months ago | (#45999247)

I've never owned an Apple machine that needed to be replaced within 5 years of the purchase date, and the only people I know who have are the ones who dropped their laptops on sidewalks or down stairwells and cracked the screen. Troll somewhere else.

Score: -1, Flamebait (3, Informative)

danaris (525051) | about 8 months ago | (#45998967)

"Will they take ownership of the issue, or continue to ask customers to pay for an entire new logic board when just the GPU fails?"

Seriously?

Apple has a history of acknowledging and providing free fixes for issues of this magnitude, if they're really affecting a significant percentage of the population. I've been the beneficiary of such a fix in the past myself.

Hell, that's even mentioned in the linked article:

Mid–2011 iMacs with AMD Radeon HD 6970 graphics cards experienced similar failures and in August of 2013, Apple initiated a Graphics Card Replacement Program [macrumors.com] for the computers, replacing the graphics cards of affected iMacs at no cost.

So with the MacRumors article having only come out yesterday, it seems pretty aggressively snide to be suggesting that Apple's going to ignore the issue.

Dan Aris

6750M/6770M (1)

ghack (454608) | about 8 months ago | (#45999071)

For the 2011 macbook pros, my guess is that this mostly impacts the AMD Radeon HD 6750M and AMD Radeon HD 6770M.

I would imagine the AMD Radeon HD 6490M doesn't get hot enough to be impacted :)

Re:Score: -1, Flamebait (5, Informative)

ssimpson (133662) | about 8 months ago | (#45999097)

Mainstreaming reporting started in the last few days. The issue has been reported consistently for nearly a year [apple.com] . I and many other impact users have reported faults in stores, reported via Apple Product Feedback in forums and written to Tim Cook to complain. Not only do they ignore the issues reported on the forum but they also delete posts with links to online forums, news stories and petitions. Nice work Apple.....

Apple do little on the issue and offer you a (paid for) repair service to fix this systemic fault. The repair being a replacement board that many users report fails again anyway.

Totally, dude. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999117)

So with the MacRumors article having only come out yesterday, it seems pretty aggressively snide to be suggesting that Apple's going to ignore the issue.

It's gett'in clicks dude.

Wait till my article about the correlation between Mac ownership and homosexuality.

After tens of thousands of posts and millions of web hits, and hundreds of dollars in Adsense revenues; people will finally see in the "article" that nobody ever did such a study and the closest thing is this complete shit [gawker.com] that posits: "Tim Cook: Apple's New CEO and the Most Powerful Gay Man in America" and further down "Cook, who has not publicly discussed his sexuality, ...".

Welcome to the World of creating shit clicks: ShitClicks.

Thin and looks over cooling is the apple way (1, Troll)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 8 months ago | (#45998981)

Thin and looks over cooling is the apple way

Re:Thin and looks over cooling is the apple way (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about 8 months ago | (#45999277)

Hey, who cares what the supermodel looks like when she's 30?

We sure don't!

mid-2010 too (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45998995)

mid-2010 have the same issue.

Playing an mpg4 video was usually great for exacerbating the issue. Watch it kernel panic!

Apple replaced mine without issue, hassles and at any cost to me two years and eleven months after I bought it. I had applecare in effect.

I'm not an apple defender, but... (3, Insightful)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about 8 months ago | (#45999017)

Will they take ownership of the issue, or continue to ask customers to pay for an entire new logic board when just the GPU fails?

That doesn't sound any different from any other manufacturer. The GPU on the laptop is, after all, soldered into the laptop motherboard. Even though is it "just the GPU" it isn't something that can be replaced on its own. I don't know why we should expect Apple to have a different standard for customer service and expected system longevity.

Re:I'm not an apple defender, but... (-1, Redundant)

Khyber (864651) | about 8 months ago | (#45999107)

"That doesn't sound any different from any other manufacturer. The GPU on the laptop is, after all, soldered into the laptop motherboard."

Not al manufacturers have the GPU soldered onto the board. Ever hear of MXM slots?

Re:I'm not an apple defender, but... (1)

Jmc23 (2353706) | about 8 months ago | (#45999153)

Let's see, mxm slots provided by almost nobody, only two big players, non of which have anything to do with apple. How is your constant mentionning of these slots of any relevance besides your need to appear knowledgable and important.

Re:I'm not an apple defender, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999203)

I don't know why we should expect Apple to have a different standard for customer service and expected system longevity.

Because they charge twice the buck for the same bang.

Don''t expect help from Apple (1)

canada_dry (830702) | about 8 months ago | (#45999023)

Like most retail stores, Apple store staff are rewarded for sales, not having not having warranty repairs. When I went there with a similar issue more than 5 years ago: http://gizmodo.com/5061605/apple-confirms-failing-nvidia-graphics-cards-in-macbook-pros-offers-free-repairs-and-refunds [gizmodo.com] I was summarily dismissed by their "genius". I went from there to an Apple authorized technician who actually tested the computer and confirmed the issue. Over the next couple years the laptop had to be repaired three times until I finally replaced it with a high end ASUS. Moral of the story... never, ever buy a sexy new Apple product unless you can also afford to also buy the extended warranty.

Re:Don''t expect help from Apple (1)

Jmc23 (2353706) | about 8 months ago | (#45999161)

Did you pay for those repairs? Because the 'moral of the story' changes if you didn't pay anything.

Re:Don''t expect help from Apple (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | about 8 months ago | (#45999285)

The convenience factor does enter into it as well. It's pain taking stuff in for repairs. Apple makes decent hardware, but they do seem to have at least as many lemons as anyone else. From what I've seen it's more, perhaps because of the size of the laptops. Most people I know with MacBooks have had at least one repair in the first couple of years. A couple have had machines that had to be replaced as they kept having problems. The good news is that they were replaced free. It's still a pain though.

Re:Don''t expect help from Apple (1)

Jmc23 (2353706) | about 8 months ago | (#45999339)

Regardless of the manufacturer, time will be lost. How much it will cost you is the big difference.

Re:Don''t expect help from Apple (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about 8 months ago | (#45999303)

The better question is whether they paid him for his downtime when he could have been doing whatever revenue-producing work he does using the Apple hardware.

Re:Don''t expect help from Apple (1)

Jmc23 (2353706) | about 8 months ago | (#45999333)

Because that's what other manufacturers do?

Re:Don''t expect help from Apple (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | about 8 months ago | (#45999521)

I see what you did there...

Apple = Disposable (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999031)

Apple will just tell you to buy the now one.

All Apple gear is disposable, that's why it's glued together, and not meant to be repaired.

Apple hates their customers. I have no clue why anyone does business with them.

Re:Apple = Disposable (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 8 months ago | (#45999417)

Apple hates their customers. I have no clue why anyone does business with them.

I can give you one explanation: Windows 8.

2011 Refurbs (2)

ghack (454608) | about 8 months ago | (#45999041)

Some early/late 2011 refurbs have been popping up on the Apple Refurb Store occasionally still (although there are none on there now there was some several weeks ago). My guess is these are machines Apple is replacing for folks with AppleCare and then they are replacing the logic board and battery and reselling them as refurbs.

I have a late 2011 (a work machine with applecare) and have never seen any issues.

Re:2011 Refurbs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999377)

You will, it is just a matter of time.

Those are all AMD Cards BTW (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999059)

Charlie Demerajan of Mostly-innaccurate's only claim to fame in life is that he "courageously exposed" the "bumpgate conspiracy" revolving around failed Nvidia parts in notebooks. Looks like this is AMD's bumpgate-II although for some reason the level of hype surrounding it is drastically lower.

Not for poor people! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999099)

If you are too poor to buy a new MacBook Pro every year you shouldn't be allowed to own one.

I couldn't imagine telling someone I own a 2011 MacBook Pro when it it 2014. I feel sorry for you people.

Re: Not for poor people! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999159)

You're shitty.

Re: Not for poor people! (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | about 8 months ago | (#45999545)

That's unfair. It's not all of him, just his cock.

Sony's CCDs failed for many digital cameras (1)

Kevoco (64263) | about 8 months ago | (#45999111)

The warranty didn't matter. The various camera manufacturers that used the Sony CCD issued a recall and replaced the CCDs. I believe Sony picked up the tab.

  CCD Sensor Problems in Consumer Imaging Products Fall, 2005 [imaging-resource.com] .

Sorry they're out of warranty (1)

Hey_Jude_Jesus (3442653) | about 8 months ago | (#45999125)

Most likely a capacitor problem. However if the product is out of warranty you are out of luck. The failure rate of electronics after two years is about 10%. I'm sure this falls within that standard.

Re:Sorry they're out of warranty (1)

nurb432 (527695) | about 8 months ago | (#45999147)

While i agree, that isn't how the world works today. People expect to be babysat their entire life.

Just look at the 'settlement' for the bad parenting skills and iPhone apps we just saw happen?

Re:Sorry they're out of warranty (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 8 months ago | (#45999447)

Actually, this sounds like a solder ball problem, not a capacitor problem. There's two main problems with electronics these days: 1) shitty capacitors (electrolytic, low-quality Chinese-made, frequently under-specced; problem easily solved by replacing high equivalent-capacitace Japanese caps with 105C and higher voltage ratings), and 2) lead-free solder. There have been a lot of cases of products failing because of lead-free solder balls under BGA packages. Reflowing them helps, but a more permanent and durable solution is to "re-ball" them with leaded solder balls instead. Leaded solder is far superior to lead-free types, as it melts at a lower temperature, is much less brittle, and doesn't grow tin whiskers.

It's not just Apple... (3, Insightful)

trparky (846769) | about 8 months ago | (#45999133)

It's not just Apple that's had an issue with this particular problem. HP has had an issue with their GPUs failing on their motherboards too in their notebooks.

I'm of the opinion now that notebooks just don't belong having high-end GPUs in them. Notebooks have always had a history of cooling issues because of a variety of issues from inadequate fans or other various issues. Now let's stick the equivalent of a space heater in the device and let's see what happens. I'm really surprised that this sort of thing isn't happening more often to more brands of notebooks.

Let's face it, a notebook is a portable device with very cramped internals. It's like it's become a form of art to find out just how much more stuff we can cram into an even smaller space. A notebook is a portable device, it's not meant to be your one and only device. If you want to be playing games, get a desktop; not a notebook.

GPU failures seem frequent in MacBook (1)

justcauseisjustthat (1150803) | about 8 months ago | (#45999165)

I know from my last 15 yrs of experience with MacBooks, the GPU seems be a problem area from Apple.

If your GPU fails, you are using it wrong... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999169)

Spoken from beyond the grave...

This is great for Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999171)

Because they can keep increasing profit margins by integrating more stuff on the motherboard, while continuing to charge the same double-premium price for premium hardware and a regular screen, and make you buy a whole new computer when just one of these components fail. This is the successful Apple business model.

Infidels Should Suffer (0)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about 8 months ago | (#45999181)

A customer still using a 2011 MBP isn't a customer. They are an infidel and should be made to suffer. They were enlightened by their Mac experience and at this point close to apostasy due to their failure to upgrade regularly.

The Shiney must make certain that they suffer!

"Just" the GPU (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999211)

Consider: "Will they take ownership of the issue, or continue to ask customers to pay for an entire new logic board when just the chipset fails?"

Apple took care of me VERY nicely on this issue. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999309)

My 2011 Macbook Pro 15" had a GPU which failed. My computer was
still covered by AppleCare at the time. I cannot say whether AppleCare
made a difference in how the problem was resolved or not.

The GPU fault was intermittent, which made it a pain to prove to
Apple that there was a problem, but after I photographed the screen
during the GPU misbehavior Apple began to believe there was
actually a fault. Without the photographs of the screen I am not sure
Apple would have given me a new machine.

Apple gave me a 15" Retina for no charge, and they included an external
optical drive as well. The new machine was the highest spec available,
which made it significantly more powerful than my previous machine.
I don't much like Mavericks but I'd have to say that Mavericks aside this
was a nice ending to my story of Macbook Pro problems.

If you find yourself with similar problems, I suggest you document everything
as thoroughly as possible, whether it is conversations with AppleCare via
phone, or emails to Apple, or conversations in person with Apple Store employees.
I did keep track of events and this helped things work out in my favor. Also,
the sooner you can talk directly with an Apple Store top level manager the better,
because in the store they are the people who can actually make a decision to
do something, whereas lower level store employees lack such power and thus all
the lower level people can do is talk, which does not result in a new machine being
given to you.

If you call AppleCare, I STRONGLY urge you to "escalate" the call until you get to
a person who doesn't have to read from a script to converse with you. I did this and finally
was able to speak with a fellow who had engineer-level expertise. Unlike the typical AppleCare
person this guy really knew his stuff and I am quite certain that talking with this guy made the difference
in my situation being resolved to my satisfaction.

Finally, much of the time I spent talking with AppleCare and Apple Store employees was a complete waste
of time and was incredibly frustrating. It was obvious that most of the people I interacted with thought I
could not possibly know anything and that their main purpose was to "humor me" and get me out of their
way as soon as possible. Throughout this frustrating process I kept my cool, and I believe that remaining calm and
never raising my voice helped the people who actually could help me "want" to help me ( let's face it, if you are
a belligerent asshole, some people will avoid helping even if they could help ). So, if you are faced with a problem
machine, be methodical and remain calm and never give up. It took me three weeks of talking to various Apple
employees on a daily basis before my situation was resolved, and I could not help but think that some of them
were "hoping I'd give up and go away", but I took pains to make sure they understood that until I got a new machine
I was never ever going to go away, and this "calm but persistent" strategy worked.

*

Viva la Norwege (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999349)

Atleast as a private person you got 5 years warranty here in Norway, companies don't have that same option. If Apple denies that they are not allowed to sell goods here.

Interesting (1)

odoketa (1040340) | about 8 months ago | (#45999457)

We have about 30 of these machines, and have noticed a higher than expected failure rate, specifically on the gpu. We've been waiting for an official announcement, but since we have AppleCare haven't been bothered. There is very little question in my mind there's an issue, and I'm finding it interesting and revealing to watch how this plays out.

Similar Problem with 2007 models (1)

SirAudioMan (2836381) | about 8 months ago | (#45999469)

Years ago I bought a refurbished 2007 model 17" MBP that was less than year old when I ordered it from Apple's refurbished online store in 2008. Upon receiving it, ON FIRST BOOT I noticed a very similar problem. It would start to boot, video output was all distorted and then it would kernel panic! I ended up calling Apple as my unit did have a 30 or 60 day or something like that warranty. We tried a bunch of things like resetting the NVRAM, etc but the problem still occurred but only on hard boot from cold. I ended up taking pictures of the screen and sending them to Apple who then happily did a warranty swap with no questions asked. I still have the second MBP which worked greated for years. It never gets used now because it so old and the battery is shot but the build quality and ergonomics on those models were far superior to the new ones. I would love to install Linux on it but I wasn't able to get past the UEFI boot process.

Mark

For people impacted by this issues (3, Informative)

ssimpson (133662) | about 8 months ago | (#45999537)

Join the Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2011mbp/ [facebook.com]

Keep up to date with the news articles: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Eb-f4R0rWNfK5gPPw4O38bCJZUh5zLTjxj3qSKtqXkA/edit [google.com]

Mail Tim Cook and express your frustration, politely: tcook[at]apple.com

Sign the petition: https://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/timothy-d-cook-replace-or-fix-all-early-2011-macbook-pro-with-graphics-failure [change.org]

"It just works...." (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45999541)

"Apple products retain their value longer than other manufacturers."

"It just works..." (1)

guygo (894298) | about 8 months ago | (#45999549)

NOT!
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